Doug Phillips: Affair or Criminal Clergy Sexual Abuse?

Scary-Doug-PhillipsThroughout November the internet exploded with the news of Doug Phillips’ recent public resignation from Vision Forum Ministries. Even though it’s been a little more than a month, various comments to my articles, as well as blog stats, clearly show that many are just now finding out. Many more will continue finding out in weeks to come.

Quite a few people initially equated Doug Phillips’ Statement Of Resignation with “repentance.” However, as I explained in a previous article, it was no such thing. Doug Phillips was duplicitous and evasive in just about everything he said in his public statements. However, he did at least tell the truth about one thing. He got the title right. It was a “Statement Of Resignation”, and nothing more.

Too many of the blog and newspaper headlines were along the lines of, Doug Phillips Extramarital Affair Forces Resignation From Vision Forum Ministries. I too made the mistake initially of using the term “extra-marital affair” to describe this scandal. However, I quickly came to see that, although it was indeed extra-marital and, therefore adultery against his wife, “affair” is an inappropriate term to use in this context. Worse yet it excuses what is, in reality, criminal conduct.

Herein I will use the term “adultery” to define Doug Phillips’ betrayal against his wife, and “clergy sexual abuse” to define his criminal actions against the young lady who, for purposes of this article and future articles, I will call “Cassandra.” Doug Phillips would object to my application of the terms “adultery” and “sex” in much the same way that Bill Clinton objected to those terms. As lawyers they use “adultery” in the strict legal sense of only constituting sexual intercourse, and if it’s not sexual intercourse it’s not even “sex.” For Doug Phillips’ it was just “an inappropriate relationship.” Such parsing leaves a lot of wiggle room, although I won’t get any more graphic than that (this is a G-rated blog).

Doug Phillips also interprets “biblically knowing each other” as sexual intercourse, and only sexual intercourse. In his way of thinking he can perpetrate any physical act, with any woman not his wife, short of actual sexual intercourse, and it’s not adultery against his wife. In his mind he hasn’t cheated on his wife and he’s not an adulterer. This gives him the escape clause he needs from being subject to the same terrible judgment that he’s pounded the pulpit with for years: “The Bible requires that all adulterers be stoned to death.” Regardless of his rationalizing, Doug Phillips is an adulterer and worse. However, I don’t believe he should be stoned to death. Doug Phillips should be grateful that our criminal justice system is rooted in English Common Law and not Sharia.

Here’s the problem with the term “affair”: It defines a relationship based upon free will and informed consent. Such a relationship is one in which both parties are fully willing to participate — where there is no coercion, manipulation, or control, and where there is a reasonable expectation that any promises made can be realistically fulfilled. Both parties are in full control of their mental faculties and emotions, and remain free moral agents. They are free at all times to say, “No” without fear of retaliatory consequences; or if after they have said “Yes” they are free to later say, “I made a mistake. This isn’t right. It’s gone too far. I want out.” Lastly, and most importantly here, an “affair” can only happen where the two parties have relatively equal “power” in the relationship. None of these things occurred in the Doug Phillips/Cassandra case because, as I’ve explained in my previous article, Boerne Christian Assembly is a religious sociological cult and Doug Phillips is the cult leader.

Doug Phillips characterizes his relationship with Cassandra as an “inappropriate relationship”, but this strains all credulity. Let’s just call it what the Bible calls it: adultery against his wife. Doug Phillips clearly demonstrates his lack of remorse (and therefore lack of repentance) when he trivializes the gravity of his offenses in Clinton-esque we didn’t go all the way terms. Even Doug Phillips’ strongest supporters didn’t buy it for long.

Cassandra was in the Phillips home every day for at least 12 years, and probably longer. It started at the time she was a young teenager, all with her parents’ consent and encouragement. She and her family were members of Doug Phillips’ religious sociological cult, masquerading as a church, Boerne Christian Assembly. Cassandra quickly became highly valued by Doug Phillips, who said of her, “In fact, we consider her to be a member of the family, and her parents to be the dearest of friends.”

Cassandra began serving part-time in the Phillips’ home when she was 15, and was there full-time from the age of 17. Even though Cassandra came from a very poor family, Doug Phillips didn’t pay her. No one, other than Doug and Cassandra, know exactly when the sex began but, at best, Cassandra was barely at the age of legal consent (17 in Texas). Some have argued that it likely started when she was under the age of consent. For Doug Phillips’ sake he’d better not have done anything at all “inappropriate” if she was under the age of consent. Texas has no statute of limitations in certain cases of sexual acts with a minor under the age of legal consent. He also better not have paid her off the buy her silence, for that too would have onerous legal consequences. But even if the sex started at 17 this wouldn’t necessarily leave Doug Phillips clear of the possibility of criminal prosecution, both in Texas and under federal statute.

Because of her age, as well as the BCA cult training, which conditioned BCA girls to “submit” to fathers and elders (i.e. passive obeisance), she would have been extremely vulnerable to Doug Phillips’ advances. The daily contact, coupled with Doug Phillips’ charm, would have softened her up.

BCA may have been a reasonably healthy and normal church when it was first started by Doug Phillips and three other church elders. There was genuine pastoral accountability and a divergence of opinions among the elders. But as those other elders started leaving to start their own churches closer to their own home towns, ultimately leaving only Doug Phillips to rule the roost, it left a vacuum of accountability and diversity of doctrine. The power soon went to his head and Doug Phillips was left unchecked to rule as an autocrat. The authoritarian Hyper-Patriarchy doctrines he continuously taught of unquestioning loyalty and submission of wives and daughters to husbands and fathers, and each of them in turn in complete subservience to their church elders (of which Doug Phillips was the only one for most of BCA’s history) served as a powerful form of mind control, as evidenced in most all religious sociological cults.

At BCA the mind control was reinforced by the terrifying prospect of excommunication, and the inevitable shunning of the entire family for one member’s excommunication. Those who have never been in a cult, or who have never studied the sociological structure and psychology of cults, find it difficult to comprehend how otherwise intelligent people can give up control over their lives, their freedom of will, and even their freedom of thought, to a charismatic leader; but the fact is it happens all the time. Most assuredly it happened to Cassandra, as well as to her parents. They all were swept up in the excitement of following a home school rock star.

Doug Phillips’ cult leader powers of persuasion add another strong argument against Cassandra having entered into a sexual relationship with Doug Phillips of her own free will, anymore than did the multiple women that David Koresh bedded. The sociological structure of Doug Phillips’ power-cult, along with his idol status among his followers (especially among the women), made it inevitable that he could, if he wanted to, bed almost any of his followers, including teens, and married women.

There are numerous reports of women flirting with Doug Phillips, both in BCA and elsewhere. This would be consistent with the behavior of “groupies” who follow rock stars. Indeed, prior to his fall Doug Phillips had a rock star status among his followers, and he had his groupies. Is a man responsible for a woman flirting with him? If he encourages it, yes, especially if he holds a position of authority over her. A man in a position of authority, and particularly pastoral authority, should do everything in his power to dissuade flirtation, not encourage it. From all reports Doug Phillips encouraged the flirtation. He, thereby, invited temptation, both to himself and to the women that he exchanged flirtations with. No doubt the cumulative effect of all that flirtation was that it went to his already inflated fat ego. In his pride Doug Phillips encouraged, rather than discouraged, his own adulation. The inevitable result was his self-destruction:

Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)

It’s likely that Cassandra did flirt with Doug Phillips, and for that she is probably now blaming herself. She does bear responsibility for her part in this but, in my view, her part is almost inconsequential to the sin that resulted. Doug Phillips was the moral leader and had the responsibility to rebuff any flirtations that were directed at him; but that not only didn’t happen, Doug Phillips has been seen many times in public encouraging the flirtations of his adoring female fans. As this illustration shows, the religious leader always has the weight of responsibility for preventing marital infidelity because he holds the role of leader, plus he has the advantage of experience, knowledge, authority and power, and the victim generally holds little if any of those things:

Clergy Sexual Abuse 4 Major Imbalances

These relational imbalances are the reason why various licensed professions, such as Psychiatrists, Counselors, Therapists, Doctors, and Nurses are held to strict professional standards of conduct which govern their relationships with clients and co-workers. In all cases sexual relationships with clients and patients are prohibited. The same applies in the military where superior ranking officers and enlisted personnel aren’t permitted to “fraternize” with subordinate ranking personnel. Numerous professions have such restrictions, including clergymen. One problem, however, is that too many clergymen don’t think such standards should or do apply to them. This is especially true of those in “independent non-denominational” churches where they often have little to no accountability. However, in many states there are laws governing the conduct of clergymen with their church members. Texas is one of those states:

PENAL CODE
TITLE 5. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON

CHAPTER 22. ASSAULTIVE OFFENSES

Sec. 22.011. SEXUAL ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(b) A sexual assault under Subsection (a)(1) is without the consent of the other person if:

(10) the actor is a clergyman who causes the other person to submit or participate by exploiting the other person’s emotional dependency on the clergyman in the clergyman’s professional character as spiritual adviser;

(f) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree, except that an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree if the victim was a person whom the actor was prohibited from marrying or purporting to marry or with whom the actor was prohibited from living under the appearance of being married under Section 25.01.

Sexual abuse by a clergyman has sometimes been prosecuted as a federal crime, as was Pastor Jack Schaap who received a 12 year sentence for engaging in sex with an underage girl. Schaap was initially investigated in his home state of Indiana but was cleared when it was found that the girl was of the age of consent (16 in Indiana) when the sex started. The FBI later picked up the case when it was determined that Schaap had traveled with the girl to at least two other states where they engaged in sex. Those states’ age of consent was higher. Furthermore, the federal age of consent is 18.

Doug Phillips treated Cassandra as “a member of the family” and she routinely traveled with him all over the country, and out of the country, often without Beall. With all the out of state travel it could easily change the question of age of legal consent considerably. However, this issue of legal age of consent is still separate and apart from the matter of criminal sexual abuse by a clergyman, and it’s entirely possible that Doug Phillips may be guilty of both.

In the Phillips sociological cult structure Cassandra would have been conditioned to act exactly as she did. In other words, if she did flirt with Doug Phillips, it was only after she had witnessed other young ladies doing the same, and his favorable responses to them. Her flirtations toward him also would not have happened until after he had directed signals of his interest at her first. He wanted her attention and, in her teenage ignorance, she gave it to him. Once he got it he rewarded her with special favors and privileges, including further access to him. Since she knew that he carefully guarded his access to himself, she would have felt highly favored to get to spend time in his exalted presence. That access was in itself a huge reward. Once it turned physical this would have been interpreted as an even greater reward. This is all part of what cult experts and psychologists call “grooming.” Cassandra’s attraction to Doug served to cloud his already self-aggrandizing judgment as he sought to rationalize what turned into years of cheating on his wife.

Sociopaths, with their lack of conscience, can readily do that. For a sociopath it’s not about having to deal with a guilty conscience because they, quite literally, have no conscience. But sociopaths are keenly aware of the importance of conforming to social norms within their particular sub-culture. So in Doug Phillips’ case it was just a matter of not getting caught. Add narcissism and a lawyer’s craftiness to the mix and you have a toxic recipe. That narcissism ultimately led to Doug’s downfall. He started to get sloppy. Most adulterers work hard to conceal their cheating, but a narcissist who has so long gotten away with his transgressions will tend to get more brazen about it.

In February 2012* Doug wasn’t even trying to conceal his “inappropriate relationship” with Cassandra. He was parading her around the San Antonio Independent Film Festival (Feb 23-25) as they walked as lovers, hand in hand. Eye witnesses were stunned and assumed Doug Phillips had just completely lost his mind.

In January 2013 Doug was literally caught with his pants down, in his home, by one or more Phillips family members. To the best of our knowledge it was Beall and or Josh who caught them.

Prior to this point the relationship had been an open secret. As long as Doug kept it in the closet no one at BCA or Vision Forum would hold him accountable. But for Doug to openly flaunt his adultery put everything in jeopardy, including many people’s jobs. Something had to be done. Doug was finally confronted in an “emergency BCA meeting” in February where he allegedly confessed and repented and stepped down as Elder of BCA. Doug promised the relationship would end. It didn’t. It just went back into the closet.

By September 2013 Scott Brown and the Vision Forum board members were informed of Doug’s cheating, either directly or indirectly. Pastor Joe Morecraft and Peter Bradrick flew to San Antonio in the later part of October to confront Doug Phillips for his sin. As Peter Bradrick articulated on his Facebook, things didn’t go well. However, they did go exactly as anyone should expect when confronting a sociopathic narcissist. The Notice Of Resignation followed shortly thereafter.

This entire saga makes for a textbook case of clergy sexual abuse. It is, therefore, not an “extra-marital affair.” Tragically, cases like this one are not rare. Instances of clergy sexual abuse are rampant. They must be exposed and the perpetrators must be prevented from ever again being welcomed into positions of power and trust where they can prey on the vulnerable. This especially applies to Doug Phillips who is guilty of many more betrayals than just this one case of clergy sexual abuse.

Numerous have been the comments requesting prayer for Doug Phillips and his family. Strangely absent are prayer requests for Cassandra and her family. No doubt they’re just following the example of Doug Phillips who, likewise, makes no requests for prayers for Cassandra and her family. It’s as though they don’t even exist and Doug Phillips isn’t guilty of betraying any family other than his own. I can only conclude this is because they view Cassandra as an adulteress, and likely a temptress who bears responsibility for the downfall of a great Christian leader. Clearly they don’t view her as a victim, but they really need to. If it was one of their daughters who had been caught up in such a cult I can guarantee they’d be blaming no one but the cult leader for it.

Some have asked, “What sort of a future could Cassandra see with Doug Phillips? She stuck with him throughout her later teens and the whole of her 20’s – the full span of time when all the other BCA girls are the most eager to marry. Why did she sacrifice all those years for a man who, by all appearances, couldn’t offer her marriage? The fact of the matter is he did offer her marriage, and she believed him.

EngagementRingSome bloggers, such as Doug Wilson, have alleged that Cassandra was some sort of “Foxy Bubbles” seductress. Far from her being the tempting seductress, it was Doug Phillips who seduced Cassandra with charm and promises. His promises included marriage and children, and his promises were sealed with what can only be viewed as an engagement ring. As confirmed by this image from 2010, Cassandra has been wearing an engagement ring for a minimum of four years.

The implications of this need to be understood in the context of the cultish culture of Boerne Christian Assembly. Many BCA girls are given “purity rings” by their fathers, which they wear on their ring finger until it is replaced with an engagement ring given to them by a fiancé. Purity rings are always simple plain bands of silver, and occasionally gold. Never would they resemble an expensive engagement ring with a large multi-caret diamond, such as the one seen here. No one in BCA could have failed to see such an expensive engagement ring on Cassandra’s ring finger. No one would have believed that it was a promise ring, especially since her father was too poor to afford it. It should have been obvious that Doug Phillips had plans for Cassandra of a permanent nature. But when you’re a cult member you just don’t question such things, and that even includes the cult leader’s wife. Whether it makes any sense to us or not, the fact of the matter is that Cassandra has believed for years that Doug Phillips would make good on his promises to marry her.

There’s one major impediment to fulfilling that promise – his marriage to Beall. Doug is deep into Patriarchy, and there are those who call themselves Patriarchs who are also into polygamy, but it’s unlikely Doug will go that far. Divorce would settle Doug’s problem but Doug doesn’t have any biblical grounds for divorcing Beall. Beall, however, certainly has biblical and legal grounds for divorcing Doug. Unfortunately Beall shares Doug’s beliefs that divorce is never permissible.

This prohibition of divorce in all cases only makes sense in light of Theonomy. But even most theonomists disagree with Doug’s extreme position on divorce. Theonomists generally hold to the more conventional view that divorce is permissible only in cases of adultery and abandonment. As an extreme Theonomist Doug Phillips would have all adulterers put to death. Thus, if your wife cheats on you, you stone her to death, leaving yourself free to remarry, without the inconvenience of having to divorce, or the stigma associated with being a “divorcee.” This also leaves you free to continue being a pastor or elder (many churches ban divorcees from being pastors and elders).

Why would Doug Phillips make promise after promise, year after year, of marriage and children to another woman when, by his own doctrinal standards, he could have no lawful means of getting out of his current marriage? His only out is if Beall were to die.

Several people, knowing Doug’s extreme views on divorce and remarriage, have emailed Jen and I expressing their deep concerns for Beall’s safety. It would be hard to miss the implications of where Doug Phillips’ extremist views might ultimately lead, and for those who have been following my articles you already know my take on Doug Phillips’ mental condition. Those already familiar with such personality disorders know what a narcissistic sociopath is capable of.

Compounding our concerns is the fact that Doug Phillips has had to confront such desperate times, and may soon be confronting even more desperate times. The old adage, “Desperate times call for desperate measures” seems ready made for an already mentally imbalanced man.

The worst possible scenario for Beall is if Doug’s exit strategy includes moving the family to some obscure place, in some obscure country (like Kenya with Brad, or maybe Peru), out of the public eye, where Doug is no longer subject to scrutiny, and Beall is cut off from all outside communication.

Pray for Beall Phillips and for the Phillips’ children. May God preserve them and protect them from all harm. And don’t forget to keep Cassandra, and her family, in your prayers, as well.

__________________

*Author’s Note: I had previously stated this occurred in 2013. After checking again with my sources I realized that my chronology was inaccurate. The circumstances remain unchanged, but the chronology of events was out of order. I apologize for any confusion. If anything this creates an even more problematic situation. What this means is that key Vision Forum people had first hand knowledge that the “inappropriate relationship” had been going on for even far longer than we even realized and, apparently, little or nothing was done to confront it.

953 Responses to “Doug Phillips: Affair or Criminal Clergy Sexual Abuse?”

  1. Mrs. W Says:

    :0 Wow…just…wow.

    • D.L F Says:

      When Doug preached that adulterers should be stoned, did he point out that was Old Testament law? Did he say that stoning should happen today? It is interesting that this church had some teachings in common with Muslim extremists.

      I would imagine that if the young woman is who you say that she is, she must have also viewed Doug as a father figure.

      • Just a shadow Says:

        Doug only preached from the Old Testament. Period.

        • Jen Says:

          Just a Shadow, I am just now beginning to realize how foreign it is to most people that Doug ONLY preached from the Old Testament.

        • watchfuleyes Says:

          and I still question his “christianity”……..No Jesus, No love………No Christianity. All I see is Old Testament, judgement, condemnation and more deeply rooted in JEWISH roots than Jesus, the NEW covenant and Christ and the cross……….so SO sad 😦

        • Jen Says:

          You know, watchfuleyes, this really does boil down to “No Jesus,” doesn’t it?

        • P. Fury Says:

          I know some have scoffed at me wondering if DP is really Jewish in his beliefs, and not really saved. But preaching exclusively from the OT just validates my point. I’m not trying to be anti-Semitic, or racist in suggesting this, just trying to prove his brand of Christianity doesn’t line up with the historical Christianity as the church father’s preached.

          If he really never preached from the NT, this is a serious problem. I can understand a balance of OT and NT, but only the OT. What about preaching about our risen Lord?

          Just more proof he’s a cult leader.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          P. Fury, I concur that it’s not “anti-Semitic, or racist” to point out that Doug Phillips, in many respects, thinks and acts more like a Jew than a Christian. In his behavior he’s certainly gives no indication that he’s a Christian. At the very least he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

          As Jen and others have noted, Doug’s preaching at BCA is almost exclusively from the Old Testament. Now I love the OT as much as any Christian could, and some of the greatest heros of the Bible are OT characters (Joseph and Daniel being two of my favorites). But there is something most peculiar about any Christian preacher who never preaches from the NT. To do so is in stark contrast of Paul’s testimony to “declare the whole counsel of God.”

          That’s troubling enough as it is, but even in Doug’s expositing of the OT, he often does so through what seems to be a Talmudic filter.

        • Grace alone Says:

          This was typical in our cult as well. Preaching law creates works which is how they keep people in bondage. It’s my contention that these type of “ministries” are false anti-Christ. Every religion except true biblical Christianity has works as its center, not Christ. If they had truly experienced the wonder of the grace and forgiveness of Christ, how could they not share that with others. It is imperative to be wise as Christians and always compare what is being said from the pulpit to true biblical doctrine.

          Since we were involved in our statewide homeschooling group for years, I did have a chance to rub shoulders with DP and see people go crazy over him. When we first heard him speak, we were awed because he does have a gift of speaking. We wanted the best for our family and DP brings enough bits of truth into his error to be false. Family becomes god. Not Christ. But thankfully, my husband began comparing what DP preached to the bible and realized DP’s theology did not line up with the overall presentation of scripture: Christ is not the center, theonomy, patriarchy, legalism. My husband always called DP a Christian muslim in theology because of his “overtaking the world” theology. Of course, Christ is currently reigning and will win, but it may not be because we have 20 kids each and overtake the world. There is a hint of truth that we Christians do need to be salt and light, but adding required works made DP’s doctrine false. I always wondered how DP knew that all his children would be converted and could overtake the world with truth. It’s only by God’s grace that any of us come to understand our need for Christ!

          Thankfully, God directed our family to trust in Christ and not get swept up in the VF cult. We live very close to SB and since we were on a statewide board, know of fallout and harm caused by the legalism of FIC/VF doctrines. My concern is that homeschoolers have a huge lack of discernment by not comparing what they hear with the Bible. It makes homeschoolers look bad, but I guess many mainstream Christians nowadays have the same problems. I read DP’s blog on the sidelines for years until I couldn’t take it any longer after the Sarah Palin junk. I knew of Jen’s story plus others situations. I know for a fact DP would not speak to a woman who had any “authority” helping organize a state hs convention….such a hypocrite.

          My kids are now in public school (gasp!) and I work (another gasp!) because we cannot live on 1 income putting kids through college. My faith is in Christ to draw my kids’ hearts and save them. I truly know how us homeschooling moms would do anything to protect our kids and align ourselves to any promise of future salvation for our kids. But all our works are vain. We must point them to Christ.

          Sorry to ramble so. I’ve been reading this saga for months. Thank you, Jen, for this site because it helps healing even after these 15 years. For years I thought I our cult was the only one. Nope, they are very prevalent because people want to work for their salvation and cults and any false religion fit that need! We need to continually point people to the true biblical Christ. Christians need to wake up and study scripture and learn true Christian doctrine to help them escape the snares of false doctrines.

        • Jen Says:

          Grace Alone, thank you for all those thoughts. I am laughing at the “Christian muslim” part, but you are so dead on regarding all this. I am sorry that you got caught up in some of this, but am more glad that you got out of it. I hope you are able to find much healing here!

        • Teresa N Says:

          Grace alone,

          You can ramble all you want, it is good ramblings….lol I like what you have to say.

        • Kate Says:

          Please let’s not put forth DP’s views as “more Jewish” because he focuses on the OT – how about using the term “fundamentalist”? Lots of so-called “Christian” fundamentalists focus on the Old Testament as it can be used to control people more closely (a long with out-of context interpretations of the writings of Paul), and most Jewish people are nowhere near still advocating stoning or other OT punishments. Fundamentalist teachings across the Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions are remarkably similar (modesty/coverings for women, submission to men etc). DP’s brand of Christianity had little to do with Jesus and much to do with control.

        • Jen Says:

          Kate, “fundamentalist” is 100% correct. Yes, he is indeed extremely fundamentalist, and then adds his own layer of legalism and hypocrisy above that!

        • Mike Race Says:

          His “dominionism” “his “overtaking the world” theology””, was a huge red flag for us as well although it took us awhile to figure this out. He taught they could usher in the kingdom of God through the taking over of the country. Anytime I used or gave others a copy of his teachings I always informed them of his dominionist views and told them to be careful of this teaching.

        • Jen Says:

          Mike, I wish that was the only thing he got wrong. I think it is time to reconsider EVERYTHING he teaches, at this point.

        • Mike Race Says:

          Jen, I am already doing that with most of the teachings I grew up with in churchianity. Taking what Scripture says as a whole and letting Scripture define Scripture. Thank you for your work here.

        • Mercy Rose McNally Says:

          I tried to post this once and I don’t think it stuck. Pardon me if it is posted twice somehow.

          I am really offended that he is being compared to Jews. His behavior and his theology is completely contrary to a Jewish point of view. His interpretation of the Torah is twisted and severe, with no respect for the nuances of Biblical Hebrew. I am weary of Christians comparing the worst of their kind to Jews. It IS anti-Semitic and it IS incorrect.

        • Jen Says:

          Mercy Rose, you are very correct. His interpretation of everything is very twisted and I know no Jews who believe the way Doug Phillips does. I think the issue here is that most Christian churches tend to preach far more from the New Testament than the Old Testament, and since Doug does not preach from the New Testament, and since he grew up in a Jewish home (his father’s side), there is speculation that those two may be connected. If there is a connection there, Doug has certainly twisted that thinking greatly. I agree. And welcome!

        • TessaD Says:

          All of the talk about how DP is “acting Jewish” is unbelievable He’s a Christian, so why don’t don’t you take responsibility for his actions and not try to pawn it off on the Jews. Nothing in his philosophy lines up with Judaism. If you don’t know what you are talking about, then don’t lecture others about it.

          Judaism preaches loving kindness. Judaism teaches that care for your fellow human being trumps all laws.

          I do not see Christians practicing the loving kindness preached about by Jesus, I think DP is acting very Christian based on the Christians I see in my day to day life and on television, in the news etc…. I work with a Jewish organization (and yes, there are Christians who work there too!) and we donate time and money to people of all faiths. DLF and Watchful eye can kiss my you know what, thank you very much.

        • Mike Race Says:

          Kate, Mercy Rose and TessaD, Thank you for speaking out on this. My family and I are Torah Observant believer’s and I too found the linking of DP’s beliefs to Jews as rather absurd. His belief system should not be linked to them at all. The intent of the “instruction’s of Yahweh” were to be first of all written on the heart and then walked out through their outward faith as an act of love.

        • P. Fury Says:

          I’m not going to get in a spitting contest, as it distracts from the topic at hand. The simple truth there are numerous factions in Judaism, and some don’t have a clue what they believe or where their beliefs stem from. Sorta like most Christians don’t have a clue about the Reformation, the creeds, councils, church fathers, etc… My comment wasn’t to insult, but to point out DP acts more like a strict Talmud following Jew than the reformed Christian he claimed. He may very well be neither.

          I’d recommend you either dig into the Talmud to see what it teaches, or read a few good books on the subject. Michael Hoffman’s book, “Judaism Discovered”, or the condensed version “Judaism’s False Gods” top that list.

      • Bob Says:

        This article contains much truth, but there is so much untruth at the same time in the article and the comments. I will address just some falsehoods. At Boerne Christian Assembly, Doug often preached from the NT. For example, we went through the entire Book of James, even memorizing it. And this garbage about Doug wouldn’t speak to a home school leader is nonsense also, e.g., Doug used to converse with Ruth Perez from FEAST in San Antonio a lot. Finally, although I could keep going, no one that I know of at BCA looked the other way while Doug had a relationship with Cassandra. I know I didn’t. Some may have known, but we were there for many years and we never noticed it.

        All of that said, I am not a supporter of Doug. We left BCA due to many of the very things alleged by Jen about Doug’s tyrannical behavour and his reffusual to deal with the adulteress (Jezebel Jennifer Grady) that was moving from family-to-family in the church sowing discord and poisoning young people’s minds, etc. while flirting with young men, including many of Doug’s interns. It all makes me so sick. Even though Doug is no longer an elder at BCA, BCA needs to repent of all the harm done to the families driven off under Doug’s leadership and offended. Bob Sarratt is just as much the “sheep scatterer” as Doug.

        • Grace Alone Says:

          Doug refused to speak to a female organizer at our conference regarding necessary information needed. Maybe he picked and chose the female event planners to whom he spoke.

        • Jen Says:

          Bob, thank you for your insights, both good and bad. I am glad to hear that BCA went through the book of James (that is an awesome book!), but I wonder if Doug did any of the preaching on it. I think the main point most were trying to make about that was that we never heard Doug preach about Jesus.

          Yes, Ruth Perez was on the “inside” circle. 🙂 And there is a very good reason for that.

          I believe that Bob Sarratt is beginning to take some responsibility for his role in this as well, but time will tell. You are correct that he also has a LOT of repenting to do.

        • notsurprised Says:

          Bob I am glad to hear that Doug preached on the book of James. But, I’m not surprised because the book of James is all about the tongue and it’s all about gossip, so I’m not surprised that’s the book he chose to focus on and have you guys memorize.

        • Jen Says:

          Notsurprised, I’m glad you went there! That was the first thing that crossed my mind, too! Ulterior motive!

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Thank you Bob for saying the truth! BCA was also going through Matthew for the last (two?) years… and I would think that DP gave at least one or message in that series.

        • Jen Says:

          HT, I was not there the last two years, so I can only speak for myself. I know others have said what they heard while they were there. I am glad to hear that BCA has moved on to the New Testament now. You mean that Doug only preached one exegetical message in the last two years? It seems like he’s lost his vision for being an elder.

        • Just a shadow Says:

          You speak from your experience, and I speak from mine. On the Sundays I was there, during the time I was there, I never heard DP teach from the NT. Other men – yes. But not DP. We must have attended in different time frames. I am telling you the absolute truth as it happened in the “era” I attended. Quit trying to “soften” the con job that was perpetrated by DP. He managed to con a bunch of grown up Christians all the while never preaching the gospel, and almost no one noticed who was absent from his “church” – Jesus. Sad commentary, and hard to own up to ( I know) but this is something that must be faced. We put away Jesus for another – DP.

      • D.L F Says:

        . There is no ‘bible only’ approach in Judaism. Jewish people have a variety of sources outside the bible such as the Talmud and Midrash. A Jewish stance on certain Old Testament laws would be different from a Christian reading of the same passages. For example, most Jewish people don’t believe in a literal, eternal hell. From what has been said on this site, Doug didn’t read the Old Testament in the same manner as someone brought up Jewish. He read it in the harsh manner that most biblical fundamentalist do. Jesus actually was a very Jewish thinker. An example, Hillel was a great Jewish thinker who was one time mocked by a non Jew who told him that if Hillel could teach him(the non-Jew) the whole of the law while he stood on one foot, the man would convert. Hillel answered, “What ever is hateful to you, don’t do to your friend. That is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary, Go learn.” Hillel sounds worlds away from Doug Phillips’ thinking but Hillel is considered a great Jewish thinker.

        I can’t comment if Doug was a Christian or not-although the arguments that he wasn’t Christian sound like the No True Scotsman analogy. However, he definitely was not Jewish in his outlook on interpreting the biblical text.
        ou.org/about/judaism/hillel.htm
        The above link leads you to a short article on Hillel, if anyone is interested.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          I agree that “There is no ‘bible only’ approach in Judaism.” Jewish scholars tend to elevate their own extra-biblical writings, such as Talmud, to a level equal or superior to that of Torah. Certainly they study Talmud far more than Torah. In fact when orthodox Rabbis use the term “Torah” it includes not just the first five books of the Bible, but also the Talmud, as though they are one in the same.

          I think it problematic to attempt to define “Jewish” if you only do it on bare doctrine. Rather, one should look to the actual thought process that results in a given doctrine. One can be Jewish and hold to any number of doctrines that are completely contradictory to other Jewish doctrines that come from the various Rabbinical schools.

          You mention the first century Rabbi, Hillel. He would be a classic example. His position on divorce was that a man could divorce his wife for “preparing an unsavory meal.” Today a Jewish follower of Hillel would say, “I divorced my wife for burning the toast.” I doubt Doug Phillips would hold to that Jewish teaching, although in practice he embraces the same self-serving thought process. Nor would he even hold to Hillel’s counterpart, Shammai, whose instruction on divorce was fairly close to what Jesus taught. Jewish Rabbis, since at least the time of the Babylonian captivity, have taken positions completely contrary to one another.

          An informative documentary on this subject is The History of the Talmud.

    • D.L F Says:

      I never really got an answer to this question. Does Doug advocate stoning as a punishment for adultery today? I realize that no one in his church could legally stone someone. According to this site, some of the church members left over the issue with the older, married woman coming on to their sons. However, stoning is a horrible, torturous manner to kill someone. I can’t imagine remaining in the church of any pastor that advocated stoning. Actually, I think that believing that people should still be stoned today is as bad an offense as anything sexual that he did..

      • Red Says:

        D. L F, from my time spent in this movement (but not at BCA), I understand that Doug and theonomists in general believe that adulterers should be punished by the death penalty. I overheard actual discussions at church (would not have been allowed to participate, being a woman), in which men were intensely debating whether the death penalty should be stoning, as the Bible commands, or more humane methods such as those used today. My heart was hard at the time and these discussions seemed perfectly normal to me. The element of real, physical, human suffering from this torturous method did not faze me at all then. I still grieve deeply now, over how hardened I became in that movement. My (educated) guess, though I have no source for you, would be that Doug would have been one who would advocate for stoning. The arguments I heard for that method (and thought in my own darkened mind), were that the prospect of such a horrific punishment would surely prevent all adultery, homosexuality, rape, murder, etc. (Obviously worked for the Israelites, right? It was utopia, right?)

        Of course these people are aware that under our current government system, this would be illegal. To my knowledge, no one was foolish enough to advocate for it being done *yet.* It was the goal, for the future, when the heathen will supposedly have mostly died off and the faithful who’ve “filled their quivers” with many children for a few generations will have taken over the government. Laws would then be put in place, to enact death penalty for a great number of things. I imagine that, if this horror story were to come true, the battle for which method to use for capital punishment would be incredibly heated. There would be an epic blood bath to kill off the remaining heathen and drive any who remain underground (though I believe that their hope is that there would not be many heathen left to kill by the time they get into power – they think that global warming activists, abortion/birth control, and homosexuality will prove quite effective at eradicating reproduction amongst unbelievers and “nominal” Christians by that time). They believe that Christ reigns now, and we are to usher in the climax of his reign here on earth by reestablishing biblical law. I suppose if you pressed them on it, they would say that their strategy for this takeover includes preaching the Gospel to “outsiders” to change people’s hearts toward Christ as well, but in *my* experience, I saw very little evidence of this actually happening, or even being talked about. 95% of the strategy was using the bodies of the women in the movement to build their base through mass reproduction. Which is, IMO, why the silencing and subordination of women become THE pet doctrine harped on week after week, month after month, year after year in churches like his. The women are their tools. Tools must have no will of their own. Of course they use flowery words to describe the beauty and value of their wives – insofar as their wives allow them to use them to further the plan. It still puts me in a deep state of grief to remember how unhuman, isolated, and dead I felt when I was amongst that group.

        My question is, would a sin like Doug Phillip’s sin warrant the death penalty under OT law, if it were to be enforced? My guess is no, understanding that unfaithfulness to one’s wife in the OT seemed to be limited to “putting her away” and/or refusal to provide for her needs. Remember that polygamy was acceptable then, and the law made ample room for it too. Even though Doug is already married to Beall, in the OT, Doug’s penalty for seducing a young, UNBETROTHED woman would have been paying the bride-price and taking her as a second wife (only if she was betrothed or married would he AND she both be stoned). OT law would not have considered Doug unfaithful to Beall. I’d be willing to bet money that this was Doug’s thinking. I’d be willing to bet that he thinks that BIBLICALLY, all he has to do to make amends is to marry Cassandra and pay off her father. If this was his thinking, it makes perfect sense to me why he would make promises of marriage to her. This does not shock me at all (sadly). Even if he doesn’t publicly promote polygamy, I’d bet this was the mental game he played with himself to justify his behavior. I also sincerely doubt that he has actual plans to marry the young woman, all I am saying is that ***using his warped understanding of the role of OT law in the lives of believers today is probably what enabled him to continue playing this mind game with himself.***

        Anyway, that is my take on both your question and this whole situation in general. I’ve been reading this whole saga and didn’t really want to comment, but this will probably be my only comment. Apologies for the length.

        • Jen Says:

          Red, you mean this went on in churches outside BCA? What you describe is exactly my experience as well. Thank you for commenting and you are certainly welcome to be here.

        • D.L F Says:

          Thank you for taking the time to write that out, Red. It is frightening and sad that the group’s ability to empathize with other humans has been warped by this teaching. I am glad that you were able to escape this type of mindset and see it for the negative influence that it apparently is.

        • OtOLi Says:

          Not to get off topic here, but since the article brings it up, I’d like to ask the question…If adultery should not be punished by stoning, how should it punished? Or should it not be punished at all?

          One of DP’s “strengths” is that he had answers to questions. People genuinely want to know how to raise their children, deal with situations like adultery, and other practical issues that come up in life. It is necessary to say that DP is wrong, but just as important to say what is right.

        • Jen Says:

          OtOLi, that is a GREAT question. I think the law of sowing and reaping applies here and that Doug is now reaping what he has sown for years.

        • UMMM..... Says:

          Ummm….. Are you unaware that there are states in the US with the death penalty today? Stoning was a form of death penalty before we had things like electricity, i.e. the electric chair.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          “Stoning was a form of death penalty before we had things like electricity, i.e. the electric chair.” Stoning to death has never been used as a form of execution in the United States. The method used for execution, from the Colonial era on, was hanging from the gallows, until it fell out of favor with the introduction of the electric chair, first used in New York in 1888.

        • Jackie C. Says:

          OtOLi,
          Why are you asking about how adultery should be punished? Are you saying that the law should be in the business of punishing people for such an offense? Or are you trying to say that DP was only guilty of adultery and not clergy sexual abuse?

        • OtOLi Says:

          The reason I’m asking is because of what I mentioned in my previous comment. People have questions and want answers. Many Christians see the Biblical commands against adultery as well as the negative consequences of it in actual life, and they want to know what to do about it. How should it be dealt with?

          DP at least offered answers. In many cases they were incorrect answers, but they were answers nonetheless. It is one thing to discredit DP, but unless Biblical answers are given to the questions people have, the cycle will simply repeat itself, maybe with someone else with slightly different answers.

          A couple replies to my previous comment mentioned the electric chair. Why is the electric chair/hanging/etc. better than stoning? Is the electric chair the correct punishment for adultery, or should it be dealt with in another way?

          Again, the heart of what I’m getting at here is that you can’t just throw out DP’s teaching without replacing it with something else. The world in general, and even most professing Christians, view adultery as either (a) not a big deal, or (b) something bad, but you’ve just got to deal with it and move on. Some Christians, however, don’t believe those views are correct. If stoning isn’t correct, what is?

        • Jen Says:

          Otoli, I agree with you. We need to give people answers. Biblical answers. Did you find my answer to be unbiblical? Or are we looking to hammer those who are already fallen?

        • OtOLi Says:

          Jen,

          Thanks for your reply. I didn’t see how your previous comment answered my questions, but I think I get it now. If I understand correctly, you’re saying that Doug is now reaping the consequences of his adultery. I agree.

          I guess what I was trying to get at is, “Should there be any punishment from the civil government for adultery?” Obviously in the OT, there was. Similar questions could be asked about homosexuality, incest, theft, etc. Some more general questions would be, “What is the proper role of civil government?” and “How should Christians live under an unjust civil government and should Christians attempt to influence civil government?”

          I know this is kind of getting beyond the scope of this blog, but as I’ve said before, there is a real need to answer these types of questions, because people are looking for answers. Ultimately, the answers are in the Scriptures, but so many people have been misled for so long that they can’t even recognize the answers when they see them.

          We need to pray for the Holy Spirit to expose the evil deeds of darkness and bring illumination to darkened minds.

        • Jen Says:

          OtOLi, I am too much of a freedom lover to want our government to have even more laws and more control in our personal lives, so I see no need for adultery laws. A healthy church would be a good place to handle these issues, but that often doesn’t exist.

          Personally, I think the problem is more that when we focus on law, we lose the concept of love. Anyone who has read my story in full knows that I committed adultery 25 years ago. LAW did not keep me from sinning. But as I come to understand, and grow in, God’s unconditional love for me, I respond by loving God and loving others. When I truly love others with the love of God, I will not commit adultery simply because I love my husband, and the other man, and the other man’s wife and kids, etc. MORE than I love myself. When I see myself in light of God’s love, those selfish desires tend to fall away.

          And so I would like to see the truth of the love of God shared with people rather than hammer them or threaten them with legal consequences for adultery. I hope that makes sense.

        • OtOLi Says:

          Thanks Jen.

          Yes freedom in Christ is certainly far better than man’s laws.

        • Corrine Says:

          I would say no indeed to civil laws as we have a pretty good
          Idea how that works in the Arab countries. 😦

  2. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Let’s just hope Beall has the sense NOT to trust her husband. Thanks TW as always. M

    • Jackie C. Says:

      I hadn’t thought of it but Jen’s right – as a narcissist he believes he has a right to his special life. It would certainly be within his worldview to arrange an accident. Not to go back to Cassandra of course but to find a new victim. Praying his wife has the brains to get out.

  3. JPGR Says:

    wow.

    I will be curious if anyone here will post their sighting of the two lovers holding hands or otherwise acting attached at the SAICFF.

    • Bob Says:

      I don’t think Cassandra was even at the SAICFF last time. I will be waiting for proof on this one.

      • notsurprised Says:

        seriously, even if she was in there or not at the Film Festival, the point is Doug was doing something he shouldn’t have been with someone who is/was not his wife. 5 different people saw it but that’s not the point. He was doing stuff in front of people & noone was able to hold him accountable. Even if it hadn’t been seen since just recently (which I don’t believe), it was still wrong. He should have been held accountable right then.

        • Bob Says:

          notsurprised,

          I am sorry that facts are an unpleasant thing for some folks. No one said that whether Casandra was at the SAICFF or not made any difference in the rightness or wrongness of what Doug was doing with her at other times. Yes, facts are a stubborn thing, but facts are important, especially when you are impugning the character of a lot of people by stating that Doug and Cassandra were parading around holding hands. I hope you can understand that if she wasn’t even at the SAICFF then the whole allegation about them holding hands is false. Yes, facts are stubborn things, but some folks won’t let facts get in the way of their conclusions.

      • Sarah Says:

        Bob TW corrected the film festival date to 2012 when they were seen holding hands as opposed to 2013.

  4. P. Fury Says:

    What’s that I hear? Oh it’s just the sound of silence from DP and his interns. Sure the interns wrote nice little ditties feigning ignorance, but everyone with half a brain understands they knew something was going on.

    Tick, tick, tick DP your man-made world is crumbling around you fast.

  5. Mrs. W Says:

    So is the relationship over? I thought I read somewhere that “Cassandra” broke it off?

  6. Teresa N Says:

    TW Eston

    Again great article.

    WOW…..I am speechless.

    I am use to scandals within the Charismatic movement but this takes the cake.

  7. Grace alone Says:

    I’m still shocked at his behavior even though I lived 15 years in a fundamental extreme separatist cult and know all too well everything that has been described here regarding the mind control and power exerted by the leaders. By God’s grace, my family escaped, but I believe the shunning was the worst stress my mom ever knew and had some correlation to the cancer which she died from.

    So nauseating. Was Beall at the SAICFF?

    • Jen Says:

      Grace Alone, welcome! I’m sorry that you were in a cult all those years, but we need your expertise here! I know what you mean about the shunning. I hope you have experienced healing from all that yourself.

      Yes, Beall was at the Film Festival. There are many pictures on Doug’s blog of Beall and the kids there.

  8. cptruthlover Says:

    Can’t even come up with a comment.

  9. NeverAgain Says:

    Maybe Doug was lying to Cassandra and never intended to marry her. After all, he was lying to everyone else.

    • Donna Says:

      I think this is very likely.

      I can’t help but think about how much “Cassandra” has been hurt by that man. But my guess is that if she and her family left BCA in January around the time they were caught, the church and everyone else probably blamed her for the whole thing. I’m sure they left BCA in shame, like so many others have left BCA and other similar churches. I wonder how her family has treated her *since* January, and whether they’ve waken up to the truth or not, or whether they’re keeping her under lock and key and punishing her for it.

      • blessed2bamommy96 Says:

        Donna, I would love for your line of thinking to be wrong but I fear you are likely onto something. So very sad for “Cassandra”

    • Retha Says:

      Probably. But still, despite everything I know of VF/ BCA/ DP, my jaw dropped at how he could have made that promise. And how she could have believed it. Is it not possible too, that he could have told Cassandra that the patriarchs had multiple wives, and he will marry her once he can get the Vision Forum product buyers to understand that?

      • oneh20 Says:

        The sad thing is that I can see some followers using the idea that he had polygamist views all along as an excuse for him and actually sympathize… and worse, consider it for themselves. It would be a real stretch for anyone who is biblically literate, but we’ve already seen a lot of theological stretches.

    • Just a shadow Says:

      Sadly, it sounds like she may have fallen for the oldest line in the book, “I’ll marry you.” So much for keeping girls isolated and protected. At least at a public high school the other girls would have looked at her and said, “Girlfriend, don’t fall for that line!” Innocence is not always the protection that parents think it is. Often it is important to be “wise as a serpent”. Jesus said so.

      • Just a shadow Says:

        Yep. I think I’ll go with what Jesus said over what FIC/Patriarchy/Gothard/DP says.

      • Donna Says:

        Well, in DP’s world, he may have either implied, or blatantly promised, marriage in order to keep this particular girl isolated and protected *for himself*. Like a possession. If she thinks he’s committed to her (and she would certainly be emotionally committed to him if they had s*x), then she’s not going to looking or hoping for a husband from somewhere else. She would remain committed as his nanny for as long as she needed to be in that role, with the hope that one day her title would change. But when they’re caught in the act? SHE would most likely be the one blamed for the entire transgression. Beall would follow her man to the ends of the earth if she believed it was the girl’s fault. Unless of course Beall is remaining committed simply because she likes the lifestyle they’ve been living.

        • Jen Says:

          Donna, I think you are dead on! Doug did keep Cassandra as his “possession” and it worked very well for everyone for a long time. I wonder if the fallout is worth it now. For everyone involved, no. For the rest of us, there will be much good from Doug no longer being in ministry.

          As far as Beall goes, if she stays with Doug because she likes the lifestyle they’ve been living, she will be in for a very rude awakening, I think.

      • Nony Says:

        Wait, I’m sorry if I seem harsh here, but if she DID fall for the “I’ll marry you line”, can we consider her horrible thought process? How is this woman a victim, even to this day? She is foolish enough to fall for the line that translaltes to TAKING ANOTHER WOMAN’S HUSBAND, allowing the children she nannies to undergo a horrible divorce, causing extreme confusion and shame to this family? Not to mention destroying the employment opportunities of many individuals? That’s a pretty weighty load to not think about for…oh…like…ten years.

        Before I get labeled as a Doug supporter, please understand, I think the man is wholly evil. However, I DID grow up in what is still considered a huge fundamentalist cult. I also understand what clergy ABUSE is. Many of us girls received unwanted UNSOLICITED advances and “touching” from a highly esteemed elder, and we were all FAR too scared to report it, not because he himself was so frightening, but because in doing so we threatened the solidarity of our entire group, his wife (whom we all loved), and we prayed constantly that he would just stop and maybe someday go away. He was hideous and we all ran whenever we saw him. He got away with it because he understood that oftentimes young children are afraid to ever speak evil about their elders and that they will try and convince themselves that the events are not really happening.

        If “Cassandra” is not held to the same level of accountability as DP, then it is an affront to EVERY WIFE who exists in Christianity. You are flirting with a MARRIED man. He has CHILDREN. You know this. She had a brother and friends who would have defended her. You may be paving the way for multiple future “abuses” in which young silly girls initiate or respond to the flirting of older Christian elders, and when things go awry, they’ll scream out Arthur Miller levels of “clergy abuse”. “Cassandra” has become the reason why many churches don’t allow gender segregation. She has become the problem that cults like VF and IBLP rise up and become successful. I do feel sorry for her because her mistake was stupid and of so much consequence, but she needs to be slapped for giving fundamentalism one less reason to trust women.

        If had been a one time thing, it would have been easier for her to play the victim card. But a decade? That’s a complete loss of conscience. If you want to support the real victims here, think of the children. And if one wants to feel like a real feminist, don’t look lightly at the women who intentionally or unintentionally move to ruin the lives of other women (Beall…who I’m not quite sure is all that nice anyway). Feminism empowers women ONLY if you don’t have to step on other women to gain that power. “Cassandra’s” behavior is offensive to feminists, wives, mothers, children, and general foresight…

        • Bridget Says:

          Nony –

          Do you not understand that her grooming began even before she entered the Phillips’ home? She was taught to submit, obey, never question, men have all authority, women serve men, etc., etc.

          At age 15 (a very naïve 15) she became part of the Phillips’ home. She had NO ONE that taught her anything valuable about herself and her identity in Christ. Her existence was for the glory of a god, but certainly not God. Her entire family was groomed to be minions to Doug Phillips who, in my opinion, is a CRIMINAL CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSER, plain and simple.

          All who should have helped her, supported her, loved her, corrected her, withdawn her from the clutches of this man, failed to do so. Instead, the god Phillips was the idol. These people include her own family and Beall. I don’t have much sympathy for Beall. It’s hard to believe she new nothing during all this time.

          The Phillips children are another matter and I pray the Lord heals them and releases them from their bondage to the teaching in which they have been indoctrinated. I pray the rest repent from serving a man and learn, instead, to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit who has been given to all believers.

        • Bethany Says:

          Nony, you describe the abuses perpetrated against you and other young girls. I think we should be careful about believing that Cassandra is far removed from these victims. It’s worth noting that even staunch VF supporters seem hesitant to condemn her: I think if there were any hint that she actively seduced Phillips, they would all waste NO time in condemning her.

          Also…if she did indeed fall for the ‘I’ll marry you’ line, we should consider how Phillips may have rationalized that. Did he say that he would take her as a second wife? I’m sure he explained it well. Did he promise anything to do with Beall being out of the picture? (Not accusing him of anything.) I am sure there would be many perfectly moral explanations he could give.

          I suspect she, at least, might have originally thought of their relationship as a father-daughter one. We see the level of physical affection Doug promotes as healthy (Daddy-daughter shaving comes to mind) and how much affection he bestows on his own daughters. Who knows how long she could have perceived their relationship as platonic (although probably with an element of hero-worship on her part).

          This is all speculation on my part, but I think it’s as reasonable as assuming that she actively flirted with him. Please be cautious about condemning a woman who may have experienced severe manipulation and even abuse.

    • Jen Says:

      Never Again, Doug could very well have been lying to her about their future together, so that he could continue his present relationship with her. How many times did I hear him preach on Malachi 2:15: “Let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth”? In fact, maybe that is why he harped on that passage so much.

      • Just a shadow Says:

        Of course he was lying to her! Does anyone *really* think that DP would throw the whole empire away by divorcing & remarrying? Not a chance.

  10. notaprincess Says:

    Great article – but I have to point out that while people like Doug have very strong views on marriage, they also have very strong views on murder. If you can’t divorce someone, you can’t murder them?! Am I missing something here?

    • Jen Says:

      Notaprincess, we are not accusing Doug of planning to murder his wife, but we are trying to figure out what all the options could be. There seem to be very few options here, and if I were the wife, I would at least want to know the options.

    • Lisa Says:

      Hi notaprincess. I don’t want to give the idea that Doug is planning to murder his wife, but narcissists whose plans are thwarted can be very nasty. In my experience, this includes raging, threatening, belligerence, crying, pretending, lying, passive aggression, bullying; it is worse than anything you can imagine. And, trust me, this has happened to me: if you try to help, they come after you. A mother and her children had fled her narcissist husband,(deacon in the church, no less) and was staying with me in my home. His threats were so frightening we had to flee our home twice and get to a safe place. Thankfully, I had contacts in the local sheriff’s department who could help. Having been through this, nothing DP does would shock me. Nor would anything Satan would do now that his sheep’s disguise has been pulled off. Desperate men often take desperate measures. I hope everyone is praying for Beal, the children, Cassandra and her family, as well as for some bold courageous people to help them.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      @notaprincess, Yes, I’m afraid you are missing something. Doug’s views on divorce are entirely self-seeking and are not rooted in morally-based imperatives. Doug can claim his views are biblical, but clearly they are not. The Bible does make provision for divorce. Doug does not. Why not? Because this gives him considerable latitude in philandering while preventing his wife from divorcing him. A divorce would have ruined him.

      Do you know Doug’s views on murder? I’m not too sure I do, and I seriously doubt that anyone else has thoroughly explored that topic yet. To my knowledge this article is the first time anyone has bothered to critically analyze Doug’s self-serving views on divorce. It could be that he has an equally self-serving interpretation on the 6th Commandment.

      • Diane Marie Kamer Says:

        The Bible does make provision for divorce.

        Catholic theologians and Scripture scholars would dispute this, based on, oh, 2,000 years of theological reflection. The whole “Matthean exception” question has been addressed again and again.

        A valid Christian marriage cannot be dissolved. Civil divorce may be permissible (especially if a spouse / children are in physical danger), but remarriage is not permissible if the original marriage was valid. “What God has joined together let NO man put asunder.” Doesn’t get much clearer than that.

        The rest of your article is excellent, but I agree with the commenter below who correctly pointed out that countless Christians worldwide hold to the permanence and indissolubility of marriage. This isn’t a “cult” thing. It is the historic teaching of the Church, especially in the West. The whole notion of “biblical divorce” is a relatively recent innovation. It is absent from Scripture and the Fathers.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          As a Reformed Protestant Christian I stand by my statement, as does the whole of the Reformed Protestant church. If there are any exceptions to that it would be rare. Doug Phillips claims to be a Reformed Baptist, so the same should apply to him. Instead he makes a radical departure. His views on divorce are far more Roman Catholic than they are Reformed Baptist. To put it mildly this is ironic.

          Doug Phillips’ target audience are Protestant Christians, not Roman Catholic. Doug Phillips abhors Roman Catholocism and considers it evil and even pagan. This probably explains much as to why he’s so long had antipathy for his mother. He also abhors RC holidays, such as “Christ-Mass” (as he would call it). If there are any RC patrons of Vision Forum they have patronized a man who despises them, so I’m assuming they have done so in ignorance.

          My apologies for not having acknowledged the Catholic position. Well, not really. It has nothing to do with the substance of this article and we won’t be getting into any arguments over it here. I’ve correctly stated the position of the Reformed Protestant Church, and you have correctly stated the position of the Roman Catholic Church. Enough said.

  11. Anne Says:

    I have been watching from the shadows on this blog. I just finished this article (having read three (and much of the commentary)) and thought to myself– “Is this TW guy starting to make this up?” Seriously!

    How could Cassandra wear that ring for four years in front of both her family and BCA friends? Did she confirm that the ring was indeed that—a “promise ring” from DP? How could her parents not see and inquire as to its source (and extravagance)? How could her friends (and other godly women that surrounded her) not figure this out–period? How much time did they really need!? How could the whole DP world (interns/employees/church members, etc.) be so COMPLETELY blind? Are they not complicit in this? Either they turned away and acted blind or they FLAT OUT covered for the man. Realistically, I can not swallow complete innocent/ignorance for any one! Or, is it just that the honor of “his” presence, company and attention were so valuable that Cassandra was sacrificed on the altar of hero/mentor/’spiritual rock star attentions!? UGH.

    @TW—I am not accusing you of making it up (I just reread that statement and a lot gets lost in the black and white from the tone I intended!), but this real life event seems so far from reality that I liken it to a lousy TV soap opera or drama!

    All of this is SO very grievous. DP needs to hide (slide) under a rock and never come out. Of course what that means for Beall and his children is (already is) disastrous no matter what you slice it.

    Cassandra–I pray that she is safe too–and that she has made things right with God, and can do so with people. I fear she is being shunned and the one wearing the proverbial (or literary) “Scarlet Letter”.

    I can echo Mrs W. “Wow. Just wow.”

    In all things, may God truly be merciful.

    • Jen Says:

      Anne, I echo all your questions and have to say that I simply don’t know. One thought I had was that perhaps Cassandra only wore that ring on trips when Beall wasn’t there. But even so, there must have been other tell-tale signs.

    • oneh20 Says:

      I don’t think TW is making it up, either. I do think, however, that at this point it would be good to clarify how he knows what he says he does. Its all spoken very affirmatively but with no references. Just a thought.

      • T.W. Eston Says:

        The simple answer is eye witness accounts from multiple inside sources, as well as my own personal experiences with Doug Phillips. I wish I could supply references, but to do so would violate my promise of confidentiality to my sources. If I were to ever out any of my sources, my sources would dry up immediately.

        To date no source has been willing for their name to be made public, and I will continue to keep their names confidential.

        Feel free to contact Doug personally and ask him if he’d care to refute anything I’ve said. If he does I’ll be certain to post it here. Unfortunately, contacting Doug these days probably necessitates going to the VFM house (I won’t post the address here, but it’s public information and fairly easy to find online).

        • Grace Farmer Says:

          Good for you T.W. on protecting your sources. I really do mean this no sarcasm at all. If we can’t apply journalistic safeguards to the blog-o-sphere as well as national recognized media outlets then all is truly lost and the really bad people get away with really bad things.

  12. Eva Says:

    Well, I heard about someone last year who seems to be in a similar type lifestyle – large family, patriarchy, probably FIC who was advocating polygamy. Not a mormon either. He was on facebook and somehow secretly trying to promote this until someone called him out on it. I don’t know if he is still trying to convince people about polygamy. So who knows what the plan was in this case.

    • Andrea Says:

      I’ve been following this scandal, and as a former Mormon, polygamy was my first thought when I read the above. It’s how these cult leaders operate and seems to logically be the next step in a Patriarchal nation-building mindset.

    • Jen Says:

      Eva, Retha, polygamy is a growing movement in certain Christian circles right now, and some of these stay-at-home daughters have married into polygamy, but I just can’t see Doug going there publicly. Privately, yes. But not publicly.

      • P. Fury Says:

        Jen,

        I heard from a little bird that DP is polygamist friendly. Have you heard the same thing?

      • oneh20 Says:

        It would make for a good cover up if he suddenly became publicly polygamy-minded (even if in name only).

        • Jen Says:

          oneh20, Doug could probably have saved his ministry if he publicly claimed polygamy. Yep.

        • Retha Says:

          According to the New Testament, an elder needs to be “the husband of one wife.” He could not save his position at church, and it would have stretched his position as a credible teacher of the Bible somewhat (not enough) even by Bible literalism.

        • Jen Says:

          Retha, early in BCA’s history, Doug Phillips brought Alexander Strauch in to teach (the men) about what the Bible says about elders. I don’t think Mr. Strauch would agree with a polygamist being an elder, no. Very good point. Perhaps that is why he stepped down as elder in February?

      • Robert S Says:

        Re:”polygamy is a growing movement in certain Christian circles right now, and some of these stay-at-home daughters have married into polygamy”
        I am not looking to take this post down a rabbit trail, but if you ever have time to post some reliable links to information on this problem, that would be good. I do not recall reading anything about this. Thank you.

        • Just a shadow Says:

          Yep. One of our patriarchal “community” daughters is now a loud & proud polygamist! Pics of the “wedding” and 3 “sister wives” ( yes, she openly calls them that) are there for public viewing!

        • very concerned Says:

          This is for “Just a shadow” below. Do you have a link to the wedding and pic? . This is really disturbing news and I am trying to wrap my brain around all this.My husband thinks this just is not so as this has got to be mistaken,A link to the site would be helpful in the credibility of this. I have long wondered if Doug had become so delusional that he started thinking concubines and second wives might be the next step in his Patriarchal teaching, Now I am seeing another similarity possibly here on the sister wives and maybe a spiritual wives doctrine was next up much like Joseph Smith had used on the early Mormon church

      • Concerned Says:

        Jen and TW, Lets be clear that anyone preaching Polygamy is not a Christian. So its not in certain Christian circles. Secondly, there are tens of millions of Christians who hold to the permanence view of marriage. Its not a “cult” thing. TW’s comments do not do that subject justice by asserting simply that Mrs. Phillips has a “biblical” way out. Thirdly, all the requests for prayer for this situation I have seen from friends have absolutely included the people who work at VF, the girl in question and her family. Any Christian praying for this grievous situation would be in great error not to pray for “Cassandra” and her family.

        • Jen Says:

          Concerned, I am glad that many people are praying about the whole situation. It is indeed grievous on many levels.

        • Teresa N Says:

          When I was in the mist of the Charismatic movement, I knew in my heart that something was way off. I had no choice but to get in the word of God and fall on my face and beg God to show me the truth and save me.
          I had to go on a bumpy. scary, journey to find out what was wrong before I could find out what was truth. I was in a counterfeit religion, but could not recognize what the authentic was because I had no clue.

          My prayer is that God almighty will make DP, his wife, the young lady and everyone involved so miserable, that they fall on the face’s and cry out to the LORD for true repentance of the hurt they have cause to other’s, and truly repent for the open shame they have brought to their family, friends and people around the world but most of all, to Jesus Christ.

          I just think about Esau in the bible how he repented to his father but God did not grant him repentance because Esau did not seek for true repentance.

          I have always told my best friend in West Virginia…When God’s word and what Jesus Christ did on the cross is not enough, we will look for more, more, more. There is not but one alternative and it is called…DECEPTION.

          Thanks for letting me share….

        • Retha Says:

          Teresa N said: “I knew in my heart that something was way off. I had no choice but to get in the word of God and fall on my face and beg God to show me the truth and save me.”

          I also pray that happens – not just to the involved parties you mentioned, but to thousands of VF following families. That is how I got into egalitarian blogging – had a blog-related brush when I started believing patriarchy, realized something is very wrong, lost some sleep for a time, and then begged God to show me the truth and save me. God then showed me an attitude that I won’t claim is the opposite of patriarchy – matriarchy would be the opposite – but the view of loving others as the self, of respecting and judging people not by outward things like genitalia – egalitarianism.

        • Jen Says:

          Balance is never found in one of two extremes, Retha. Love is certainly where God intends for us to plant ourselves.

        • Donna Says:

          Retha, since you mentioned matriarchy, I thought I’d post an article I read a while back that was very freeing to me. The author explains how “matriarchy” does NOT equal “feminism” (she’s a former card-carrying feminist who eventually came out against it, and many took her book to justify what we now know as the patriarchy movement). This article describing matriarchy (not feminism) is contrary to VF and ATI teachings. Mothers/women have played very important roles — even in the Bible — throughout the ages… and not ONLY for bearing babies to create a walled “dominion” society from within. http://www.home-school.com/Articles/patriarchy-meet-matriarchy.php/

        • oneh20 Says:

          LOVED the article! Thank you!

  13. notaprincess Says:

    I would also question the information about hand holding at the film festival. Presumably it wasn’t all vision forum people there – there would have been many Christians from far and wide with no strong link to VF but the same (supposed) strong “family values” as the Phillips professed. How could Doug do that and not have someone call the press? IF I was a god fearing Christian fundamentalist with strong family values and had just paid a small fortune to travel a vast difference with my family for some godly occasion and the guy running the show is brazenly flaunting what would have seemed like a mistress, I wouldn’t have not said anything to anyone. Am I missing information that would explain this?

    • E Says:

      I was at the Film Festival. The young lady in question was not there. The relationship had been ended at that point. I have no idea why this is being said, but it’s not true.

    • Jen Says:

      Notaprincess, I was wondering if perhaps they were holding hands in locations where there were only a few people. I doubt if it was really out in the open for ALL to see. I wasn’t there, but I’ve heard this from several people.

      • Half truths abound Says:

        I think that whoever gave that information was either mistaken, or had a previous FF in mind. I don’t think that came from the source and directly contradicts the young ladies’ own testimony.

        • watchfuleye Says:

          so Jen got the story from 5 different sources. So FIVE different people that saw it are wrong? not likely

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Yeah likely considering how many other things could be disputed as to their accuracy.

        • Jen Says:

          HT, you know I haven’t been there, so fill us in. I am more than glad to hear the truth!

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Sometimes a wise man doesn’t say too much. Not claiming wisdom, but trying to avoid foolishness.

        • Jen Says:

          HT, sometimes the truth needs to be told. This is one of those times.

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Not disagreeing, but I’m not avoiding gossip. There are plenty of things going on behind the scenes, and sometimes a well meaning person can blow something. Like if the guys that showed up at DP’s door had had their cover blown ahead of time, I’m convinced that whole thing would’ve been manipulated just like everything else.

        • Jen Says:

          I fully agree, HT, and I would not want anything disclosed that SHOULD be kept secret. Absolutely. But you give a perfect example of Peter and Joe (they weren’t alone) showing up without Doug knowing ahead of time. Doug may not have expected those particular guys, nor the timing, but he certainly knew something was up. There are too many other things that happened before they showed up at his door, and I think you know what I am talking about.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      notaprincess, I should have better specified the particulars of the hand holding at the SAICFF. More than likely none of it happened in public spaces. The convention center is expansive with many areas not accessible to the general public. I don’t think Doug would go so far as to walk hand in hand with Cassandra in public spaces. But it most certainly did happen back stage, witnessed by multiple VF and BCA volunteers who had back stage access. It wasn’t witnessed by hundreds, or even dozens, but certainly enough to cause those people to wonder if Doug was losing his mind.

      • Bob Says:

        I was there and Cassandra was not there (unless she hid “backstage” the whole time). In fact, there was much discussion at the time by me with many others as to where she and her family were because we could not believe they wouldn’t have been there.

        • Jen Says:

          Bob, due to the conflicting reports, and I have heard about the hand-holding from MANY people, I am going to assume that she showed up briefly, perhaps just to see Doug for a bit.

  14. Susan Says:

    and why would Peter Bradrick and all the others be so surprised to learn of the *affair* in Oct if DP was running around at the film festival in Feb holding hands with her?

    • Jen Says:

      Susan, Peter Bradrick was not at the film festival this year. With the “no gossip” rule in place, it is likely that no one would have told him.

  15. Just a shadow Says:

    There is still something missing. I don’t think that Morecraft and Bradrick would have had sufficient power to force a resignation.I know in my gut that DP would have zero fear of Bradrick – he’s a minion to DP, nothing more. Morecraft? Sure he has the weight of theological presence, but DP has broken away from former mentors before. There is more to the resignation story, I would wager. I have no clue what it is, but there is a piece of the puzzle missing.

  16. Marian the Librarian Says:

    Quoting Mr./Ms Eston’s article:
    “Cassandra began serving part-time in the Phillips’ home when she was 15, and was there full-time from the age of 17. Even though Cassandra came from a very poor family, Doug Phillips didn’t pay her. No one, other than Doug and Cassandra, know exactly when the sex began but, at best, Cassandra was barely at the age of legal consent (17 in Texas). Some have argued that it likely started when she was under the age of consent. For Doug Phillips’ sake he’d better not have done anything at all “inappropriate” if she was under the age of consent. Texas has no statute of limitations in certain cases of sexual acts with a minor under the age of legal consent. He also better not have paid her off the buy her silence, for that too would have onerous legal consequences. But even if the sex started at 17 this wouldn’t necessarily leave Doug Phillips clear of the possibility of criminal prosecution, both in Texas and under federal statute.”

    I’ve said it before, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll say it again: these events must be brought to the attention of local law enforcement. Let the experts investigate the facts of the case, and follow up accordingly.

    • Jen Says:

      Marian, it is Mr. Eston.

      I believe that something is being done about this situation legally by those who are involved. We shall wait and see for now.

  17. Darrell Says:

    As TW stated: “Doug is deep into Patriarchy, and there are those who call themselves Patriarchs who are also into polygamy”

    It only follows that the next teaching to be introduced in this movement is polygamy. The teaching would slowly be introduced and probably just to a few individuals at first. This is what happened at my non-patriarchy, pre-mil church around 10 years ago. A couple who were former youth pastors at our church became heavily indoctinated by VF teaching via home schooling. During the difficult pregnancy of their 6th child, the wife decided that she would no longer be able to go through another pregnancy and subsequently had a procedure done to not have any more children. This infuriated her husband and he was determined to take on another wife but not divorce her. The prospective new wife was in her late teens and a former student in the youth group. I witnessed the flirting and extra long embraces. The young lady recognised what was going on and the relationship did not go on any farther. We have a small church just over 100 people but it really wasn’t recognised as to what was going on until later. The husband quit going to church and the wife and family left soon after. Around the same time there was also another family in our church who were ship wreckecked by the false teaching of VF. Since I became aware of VF and their false teaching around 2006 I have been keeping up with the patriarchy movement and Family Integrated Church movement which is being introduced to our church by some home schooling families. My wife and I speak out against the legalistic teachings associated within these movements but some families still can’t recognize the harm.

    • Jen Says:

      Darrell, welcome! I have heard that polygamy is a growing movement these days. I am sorry to hear that Vision Forum’s teachings are harming your church. I hope you find useful information here to help put a stop to some of that.

  18. Truehart Says:

    As one who devoted more than 25 years into full time ministry, I can testify to the continual and abiding presence of temptation. On one occasion, I had made an appointment to visit with a couple in their home one afternoon. As I arrived and stepped up to the front door and knocked, I looked forward to seeing them. A moment later, the wife, a young and attractive women answered the front door wearing little more than a see-through nightgown. She stepped back, smiled and invited me inside. I asked if “Tony” — her husband was home, to which she responded, “No, he could not make it, but I thought it would be nice for the two of us to become better acquainted anyway…” At that moment in time, I had a decision to make. This woman was there, ready and willing to get to “know me better” with her husband nowhere to be found. My heart was racing and I froze, trying to regain my composure. I simply smiled, thanked her for her time and told her that I would like to come back and visit another time when both of them were at home. She understood the point and quietly closed the door. I walked back to my car pondering the “what if” questions — what might have happened had I not walked away. It was a good decision.

    While attending seminary, there was three students who had come to prepare themselves for ministry, but were soon expelled because of “covering for each other” while they visited the local “strip club” at night after class. A honor student at the same seminary who graduated at the top of my class, within six months of graduation was caught sleeping with one of the ladies in the church where he served. Another ministerial student in my class was expelled from the seminary for having been addicted to methamphetamine, and committing adultery with one of the local “strippers”. Other men whom I knew, loved and respected were involved in embezzlement and misuse of the church treasury and dismissed by the churches where they served. A prominent Youth Director was caught engaging in an “inappropriate relationship” with one of the girls in his youth group. Another respected Youth pastor confessed his addiction to pornography and was terminated by the church where he had served for nine years. These stories are REAL and they are tragic.

    The situation with Doug Phillips does not surprise me, given the atmosphere created by BCA and VF ministries that lends itself to various forms of abuse. No reasonable person could infer that those close to him were unaware of what was happening. In my experience, what I observed was that those chosen, selected and mentored for various positions of responsibility reached a stage where the choice of “compromise” over “conviction” becomes a matter of their own survival in keeping their position, or risk losing everything by taking a firm stand against the actions of those to whom they are accountable and on whom their “careers” soon depend. To be dismissed from a “major ministry” for ANY reason makes future opportunities nearly impossible.

    Therefore, the “leader” (Doug Phillips) intentionally surrounded himself with his own personal “band of brothers” whose absolute loyalty was expected — without question, no exceptions. In many cases, the “leader” gathers enough “dirt” of these other men (secret sins) that to expose him would be a form of hypocrisy because of what they themselves were doing in the darkness. In other instances, the contrived atmosphere is created to convince this “team” that THEY are “God’s men” battling against the forces of evil in the world and their mission to just “too important” to risk being exposed by the common members who just did not “understand” how God was using them. Thus, the “band of brothers” each of whom struggled with a variety of ‘secret sins’ may not have felt the actions of the “leader” were any worse than their own.

    As a young man entering into what I believed to have been the greatest work of my life, I listened carefully to the warnings of the Professors who share the absolute necessity of personal integrity and doing whatever was necessary to remain above reproach in the service of God. Being married, I wanted to protect myself and those whom I loved by avoiding situations that had even the appearance of impropriety. I chose never to visit or to counsel with a woman alone. In those congregations where there was a church secretary, I made certain that she was at LEAST 20 years my senior and that, even in those instances we were never alone together in my office behind closed doors.

    Having traveled over the years, conducting meetings in various churches and leaving my wife and family behind, there was countless opportunities to spend time with the “groupies” that were present. Being a recognized speaker who is admired by those who attend provides the fertile soil for temptation to take root in the deepest places of the human heart. I chose to visit with people in public and never invited anyone to my room for a “visit”. The price for such actions and the hurt it would have caused those whom I loved was far too important to me.

    The Biblical account of the woman “caught” in adultery is a graphic illustration of how the “game” is often played (John 8:2-11). This woman was “caught in the very act” (v. 4) and brought to the feet of Jesus. But SOMEONE was missing. Where was the MAN who was also “caught in the very act”? While the leaders who dragged this woman out for public humiliation, they had allowed the man involved to “get away scot-free”! Could they have been “covering” for one of their own buddies? The account does not tell us. But the same attitude and atmosphere that winked at the man who had equal responsibility of having been “caught in the very act” also is EXACTLY what happened in the case of Doug Phillips.

    While people are disappointed by the actions of DP who clearly knew better, there is an unspoken despising of the young woman who, in their minds, MUST have lured or enticed this “man of God” in some way. My hopes are that many will surround this young woman with all of the support, love and encouragement that she will need to heal from the brokenness and pain that now rests in her own heart and mind. She was used and now she KNOWS she was used and quickly discarded as to pick up the pieces alone. Like so many others, her reputation will follow her as the one who “destroyed the work of God” — all of the “good” that VF was doing for God’s Kingdom. Never mind that she was devoted to DP and probably dreamed of the day when she and him would walk romantically into the sunset — never really considering that it was NEVER going to happen that way. She was taken advantage of in the worst possible ways, spiritually, emotionally and physically. My prayers are that God will strengthen her through the challenges that she will face in the aftermath of all that happened, including the death of her own dreams, visions and plans.

    It is not a sin for one to be tempted — everyone has a moment of decision at various stages of life. The question each of us faces is, how will we respond?

    The consequences of a moment of weakness that develops into a pattern of continual depravity often last for a lifetime and even if there is ever genuine, sincere repentance, it will not erase the damage, pain and hurt caused to everyone involved either directly or indirectly.

    • Jen Says:

      Truehart, thank you for your thoughts here. What struck me was the “band of brothers” that Doug had with his interns and young men who worked with him. Yes, it was very much a “band of brothers.” And the “secret sins” that he held over them to keep them from exposing his own sins were probably those that Doug himself “commissioned” them to do — such as how they treated me when I first told my story. I saw that Nathaniel Darnelle said that many of the young men had done some hurtful things because Doug had asked them to. It all makes much more sense now. If they are ALL sinning together, they will not “out” one another. Wow.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      “No reasonable person could infer that those close to him were unaware of what was happening.”

      Exactly. They did know. Some actively participated in Doug’s coverups, such as the VF Interns and several key VF employees.

      Doug not only orchestrated his own coverups, he had to cooperate in the them. When he started getting reckless and foolhardy, such as walking around the SAICFF holding hands with Cassandra, they had to draw the line with him. He was risking everything, including their own jobs and reputations.

      Doug Phillips is the focus of this blog. However, it’s entirely possible that in coming days we’ll be naming names and actions of Doug’s “band of brothers”. They all have blood on their hands, and not a single one of them has yet to confess and repent of their evil deeds.

    • Mike Race Says:

      As a former minister I agree with everything trueheart says here. We are taught in seminary to be very careful of being with women alone and the temptations that would come as pastors and to take steps to make sure of our integrity which means to avoid all appearance of evil.

  19. Observer Says:

    TW: Isn’t this getting awfully close to identifying Cassandra who is (if a victim) someone to protect? Not in the know here, just a little concerned. Is this with her consent?

    • Half truths abound Says:

      Very concerned as well…

    • Jen Says:

      Observer, while no one is naming her, those who are in the know already know who it is. It is not much of a secret at this point, but out of respect, we will not use her name.

      • Observer Says:

        Jen: But how about her consent? Won’t she feel further victimized by this?

        • oneh20 Says:

          Her name comes up with a simple google search using some of the information here. Sadly, her name can quickly become a household name in any VF type family, even if they are not directly involved there locally with VF or BCA.

  20. End it Says:

    0.0 Wowser. Wow. I think he literally thought he could continue on with the whole charade, indefinitely. He was delusional. Is this where all of this is going to end? This blog? Is this story going to come out fully to the public? I mean, in the news, etc? This needs to be broadcasted over all of the HS movement. This can NEVER happen again. Wishful thinking I’m sure.

    • Jen Says:

      End it, our goal is to make sure that Doug never has a chance to be in public ministry and hurt people like this again.

      • End it Says:

        I hope this is blown wide open. Soon. The longer it takes the more damage is being done behind the scenes.

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Hmph. That doesn’t take into account the very real need for healing in some corners. Don’t let your hatred for some blind you to the time it may take for justice to run it’s course.

        • Jen Says:

          Yes, Half Truths, there is MUCH need for healing, all the way around. There are thousands who are hurting very much right now.

    • oneh20 Says:

      Many homeschoolers do need to be alerted, but I have found that many people on the blogosphere seem to think ALL homeschoolers are VF or ATI types. I live in a very large city and most of the people I know homeschool. Most, however, have never even heard of VF or ATI. I only point this out because there are blogs that, although they give a disclaimer somewhere on their site, tend to paint all homeschooling families with a very large and unfortunate brush in their articles. The average person reading their site would not know necessarily that it tends to deal with VF/ATI types. I’ve asked them to consider rethinking the title of their blog, but I’m sure its title alone brings beloved hits. I like Jen’s blog because it comes across as more fair and well rounded that a lot of what I have seen. Not trying to pick a bone, I promise, End it! – Your comment just gave space to write out some of what I have been thinking lately 🙂 In cities like mine, you really do want your kid out of the public school meth zone and so I tend to be a little zealous in protecting our rights to homeschool. I’m sure the blogs like the one I am referring to are helping people in various ways, as this blog helps me, and I would never discount that. I just think we all need to be clear that VF and ATI do not have the market on the homeschooling movement.

      • Jen Says:

        oneh20, I am glad to hear that VF/ATI does NOT have the market on homeschooling. Most homeschoolers I know are either involved in it, have been involved in it, or have at least attended one workshop on it. I was surprised to find that there are some homeschoolers that know nothing about it. I HOPE IT STAYS THAT WAY!!!

        • Donna Says:

          I actually know a lot of homeschoolers who know little to nothing about DP and VF. They may have heard of him/it, but never bothered to investigate because they’re busy with their own lives and…. teaching their children, and living in and preparing them for the *real* world and service for the Lord. These are usually people that don’t go to the annual homeschool convention, though, where the VF-type groups usually have a large appearance. OR they go to convention, but are there for one purpose — to research curriculum and legitimate teaching tools, NOT to check out the lifestyle vendors and seminars.

          There are also many non-Christians out there who homeschool, so they would want nothing to do with VF even if they knew about it. BUT, I also know a lot of homeschoolers who are totally or at least partially on the VF/patriarchy/NCFIC bandwagon. We were partially on board at one time, but thank God saw the red flags and got out before we were too entrenched.

          Location may have something to do with it, too. We live in a large metro area where we actually have many good options for our children and families, and more choices for decent churches. We just have a large mix of different *types* of homeschoolers here… so no, homeschooling does NOT automatically equal VF/ATI. We had two friends who have numerous VF materials in their homes ask us about ATI for homeschooling. We shared our experience and warned them to stay far, far away! I don’t know if they did, though, because both families moved away. Neither of them were completely happy with our very close, strong family-oriented — but not family *integrated* — church, or the fact that families in our church are fine with their daughters being college educated. I’ve been wondering about these two families ever since DP’s resignation in October.

          Anyway, I’m sure the Duggars’ TV presence may have something to do with homeschooling being equated with the VF/ATI lifestyle in many people’s minds, too.

          National Bible Bee is another event that attracts homeschoolers, and it has Gothard’s name all over it. (Not on the website, but in the box of materials that comes.) So people get involved with Bible Bee, and then they see Gothard/ATI/IBLP/Verity Institute/etc. advertising materials in the box of Bible Bee materials…. and it just spreads.

          But I repeat….. homeschooling does NOT automatically equal an association with VF/ATI!

        • Jen Says:

          Thanks, Donna. BTW, Doug was involved with Bible Bee. Talk about control. They took an awesome concept and turned it into something, well, not so great. (Not a topic for this blog, really.)

        • MommyMc Says:

          I won’t get into this too much, since you said it’s not really for this blog, but we are not VF or ATI “followers” and we have participated in the Bible Bee at both the local and National levels for a few years. While there is that “presence” there, it is not the only influence. We also know others who have very strong feelings against VF and ATI who have participated all five years of the Bible Bee. Along with us, the other people we know who are not ATI and VF wish more people would participate that do not follow those leanings. It is an encouraging time and we love to meet others who value the study and memorization of God’s Word. Read the whole list for the Board of Directors. You are right, those influences are there and a number of the families follow them, but certainly not all or even everyone in leadership either behind the scenes or in the public view.

        • Jen Says:

          MommyMc, I know that Doug emceed one year at least. I also know this Bee began as a memorial to a young lady at our church who died of cancer. There are many connections indeed.

        • MommyMc Says:

          Jen, I’m aware of the connections that you stated, but again, if you have been there, you would know that the VF/ATI presence is not the only thing going on. People from Moody Radio also have emceed (the same year Doug was there) for different levels. Again, our family has mostly avoided VF and ATI, although we have friends who “follow” them. Doug Phillips was a speaker at the first homsechool conference my husband ever attended. (I had been to one previously.) He was instantly turned off by his message and personality. I have seen many times throughout our marriage that my husband tends to recognize “wolves in sheep’s clothing” early on. Although our children are homeschooled, my husband especially has wanted to avoid the label of “homeschoolers” and has not wanted to be a part of the “homeschooling movement.”

          I do understand your concerns though.

        • Jen Says:

          MommyMc, I absolutely agree. I’ve never been a fan of guilt by association. I was just pointing out that Doug Phillips is very involved in many projects. Glad he won’t be at the Bible Bee any more!

        • oneh20 Says:

          Oh, believe me, VF/ATI is considered fringe here. 🙂

      • cptruthlover Says:

        Yes, I think it as to do with what region you are from and what homeschool or church group you at a part of. California has a lot f groups that know of Doug Phillips and may have purchased things from his catalog, but were not at all aware of his teachings. CHEA actually had him as the keynote speaker this year, but that was something new. It was like he was just starting to gain a stronghold.

  21. Sarah Says:

    If Doug and Cassandra are still an item do you really feel you need to continue to protect her identity. I mean you just posted a picture of her and we all know who
    it is. You are claiming she walked around holding hands with him in public. Doesn’t that make her a little cold towards Doug’s children at the very least?

    • Jen Says:

      Sarah, from all accounts we’ve heard, they are no longer together and therefore she is no longer a nanny to his children.

      The picture has her face blurred on purpose. We do not use her name simply out of respect.

  22. End it Says:

    Yes, it is obvious who it is. I am sure he convinced “Cassandra” that the children would be better off with him and her instead of their mother. I have heard so many stories like this where the man takes on the vicitim role so his lover will feel sorry for him and go along with it. I am guessing but…

  23. Truehart Says:

    Sarah

    All of us remember how the world seems so full of possibilities when we were teenagers — before we began to experience the “real” world and the disappointments. It was all about feeling alive, carefree, with boundless energy and starry-eyed visions of who were would marry, what we would do. It all seemed so “fresh” and “new’. Experiencing love for the very first time, I assume this young woman did not even “think” about the possible impact it would have on the lives of his family. It was a dream, so exciting to feel loved and noticed by this “great” man. She probably never considered the effects. Teenagers do foolish things because their ability and the maturity to ponder the consequences of their actions remains undeveloped.

    Even as adults, we all like those feelings of “first love” and try to recapture them when possible, and we do not always make the best decisions or consider the consequences.

    Just a thought

    • Jackie C. Says:

      I think in this case it’s teenagers can easily be groomed to be victims of abuse because of their inability to see the abuser’s ultimate goal. Any culture that glorifies those in ministry helps groom the church for abuse.

  24. DesiringToDiscern Says:

    So we have news of three areas of *wrong-doing*. This one, the Grady puzzle, and the business/ministry shenanigans. Do they connect? Obviously DP is in all three arenas. Sticky mess, eh? ( …or messes)

    • Catherine Says:

      And why are all things Grady being scrubbed from his VF blog, but “Cassandra” is still there? This whole thing keeps getting more and more bizzare.

  25. Sarah Says:

    Truhart we are talking about a woman who
    30 years old are we not? A woman who had a very deep bond with the Phillips children. We are talking 10-12 years here. Wouldnt she have to have been pretty non-feeling towards the potential of destroying a family? I mesh this seems pretty brazen to me. Saying she was wearing an engagement ring and being publically affectionate. I agree to begin with she was most definitely a victim but at this point don’t you think she was thinking for herself?

    • Truehart Says:

      Sarah
      That is a great question. I have two daughters, one is 32, the other is 28 and the differ significantly in their level of maturity and how they think about life itself. I do not know anything about the particular woman in question. I am certain, given the background of those involved in homeschooling etc. she is probably exceptionally intelligent, but also may have lacked a certain measure of “real world” experience as it pertains to the complexity of relationships.

      I do not know her heart, but it was probably a very confusing relationship to have tried to sustain over a period of time, and the efforts to keep it hidden from most people. As with every young person, there is an element of selfishness involved, and in getting what she wanted at whatever the price.

      Eve was deceived, Adam made a calculated choice — both were accountable for the outcome and both suffered the consequences ultimately. Only God really knows what was in her heart and mind. As a man, I know what was in the heart and mind of DP in the cravings of his own flesh. Perhaps as a woman, you have a clearer picture of how she might have been thinking. Men are like waffles, women are like spaghetti (too complicated for me to understand).

    • Jackie C. Says:

      I’ve heard many stories from survivors of clergy sexual abuse and most involved some story line from the minister where the victim was doing God’s work or was called to the sexual acts as a way of empowering the minister. They slowly draw the victim in then convince her (or him) that it’s God will and a special calling.

    • Retha Says:

      IF she believed he would have entered a polygamous marriage, and such is normal (very likely, considering the patriarchs’ wives and the VF way of understanding “normative”), she probably would have thought that she is not harming anyone, that being wife 2 is just another honest and Biblical thing to do.
      But if she wore an engagement ring for years, and still people did not blow Doug’s cover – some people knew and chose to do nothing.

  26. End it Says:

    Jen, so from everything you guys can gather, is this the only girl? Or did he have a few on the line so to speak?

    • Scott Says:

      This is really a matter for Federal law enforcement if Doug transported her across state lines and had any form of sexual contact with her before she reached age 18. That is exactly what Jack Schaap was convicted on. Violation of the Mann Act.
      What is with these “men” ? How on earth can any of this be justified. If they did this to a niece of mine, they would have personal security issues for the rest of their life. That would probably only amount to a few days, even a slug like DOUG has to surface eventually.

      If these interns were so stupid as to committ crimes for their great leader then they can face the consequences too. If their parents trained up such a pathetic bunch of weak followers then that kind of distroys the whole concept of this patriarch crap. The parents have some responsibility too, they should have been monitoring things closer. Even when I was well into my twenties, no longer living at home and running several businesses, my parents knew what I was up to. I always knew they were watching. Here these Vision Forum families are lifting themselves up to be the “ideal” christian family and then sending their young sons off to join Doug Phillip’s own little version of the SS. When you think about it this “band of brothers” (or band of foolish idiots) were at considerable risk. If they truly were known for showing up at people’s homes armed to issue threats, then they are lucky to be alive. I know a lot of guys that would have shot them on the spot for pulling a stunt like that. Years ago some clown for a collection agency showed up at a guys place of business and threw back his jacket to display a firearm. The business owner’s employee behind the counter immediately shot and killed the guy.

      In Texas with clearly defined Stand your ground laws, and the ability to lawfully use deadly force to protect property, playing intern cowboy was just plain ignorant. These kids might have viewed themselves as tough guys, but I have seen the real deal and they are totally Sesame Street.

      • Jen Says:

        Scott, yes, I think they picked those who would not defend themselves. Interesting that they know exactly where I live and they never once showed up to physically threaten me! I guess they knew it wasn’t worth the risk!

        • watchfuleye Says:

          End it………don’t know if it was the only girl but some assume though. There’s some speculation though, that she wasn’t the “ONLY” woman in DP’s life……….

        • Scott Says:

          Nah, they just knew you would show up at their next event and do an informational picket, LOL They probably would have preferred you come to the door with a Beretta . I heard Doug was scared to death of your flyers , was cowering inside asking who was taking flyers while his goob brigade was running back and forth reporting back what was happening. Who needs a gun when you can chase a “patriarch ” away with a flyer. All it take is a short burst of truth and they are running for the hills (yep like that cute little pig in the Geico commercial, weeeeeeee weeeee weeee).

        • Jen Says:

          Scott, you really have me laughing on your description of how I used my rights to stand for liberty of the oppressed! Would it really have been so hard for Doug to actually have a polite conversation with an old friend? 😉

    • D.L F Says:

      If all this is true, I hope that TW and Jen go to the authorities. with this information.

      • Corrine Says:

        Very curious about that too! An also, do we know
        That is was a physical relationship- not just emotional?
        I have talked to several who think he was honorable to step down over something that was not even a “real” affair . Ya. Hard to believe but true. That is why it does matter if it was physical
        Or not.

  27. Corrine Says:

    What can you all tell us about DP’s relationship w/ Beall? Did they seem to be drifting? Is he mean & controlling w/ her? I have been told by a friend of a former friend 🙂 that he treated her very disrespectfully. Talking down. Criticizing in public etc. If that is true, that may explain why she doesn’t leave even when she knows the relationship is ongoing. I guess I am just trying to get a picture of Beall & trying to figure out if she stays cause she is a victim or if their relationship has become like the politicians, famous people who stay together because it benefits them.

    • NeverAgain Says:

      Not sure of their current relationship, but Doug used to speak very highly of Beall in his speeches. He admired her for her intelligence (William & Mary grad), her devotion to right-to-life issues (she ran an unwed mothers’ ministry in college), her sense of humor, and her willingness to uncomplainingly deal with the mess of daily life in a busy household. In one of his really old cassettes (produced around 2001), he talked about his “courtship” of Beall (he pursued her in an unusual way, but they ended up having to wait years to get married because of a foolish financial decision Doug made). There’s a lot of history there, though Beall has every reason to think now that the last 12 years were all a lie.

      I spoke briefly to Beall several times on the three F&F tours we attended. I thought she was interesting and funny. Some of the other moms were a little dreary (sorry to offend anyone), but Beall was really fun to be around.

      I was absolutely stunned to read the article last night. Like, I was practically walking into walls after reading it. Beall is a wonderful woman who has been an asset to this successful man for 25 or so years. She could easily have been successful in her own right if she had pursued a different path in life. Instead, she is being pushed aside by a nanny scandal and we’re reading rumors that her very life could be in danger. It is mind-boggling. I hope she kicks DP’s sorry self to the curb and breaks free of this crazy mess.

      • Ed Says:

        I don’t know to what “foolish financial decision” Doug Phillips referred with respect to the delay in his marriage to Beall but I do know at least part (if not much/all) of the delay was on account of her parents’ position with respect to the marriage. That did not change and ultimately their wishes were not honored. The Beall of that time was a strong yet completely feminine woman with gifted leadership abilities, and a real heart for Jesus Christ and His immeaurable grace. She led Bible Studies in college and sought to be discipled by more mature Christian women…a model that had been set for her in her family.

        • NeverAgain Says:

          Ed, I can’t remember the entire story, but it had to do with Doug purchasing an expensive car on credit (against his father’s advice) and then wrecking it(?), which put him in debt that took him years to get out of.

        • Ed Says:

          Yes. The red jeep. Terrible accident that involved Beall and another woman whose arm was very badly hurt. Interesting version of their story. Thanks.

        • Jen Says:

          Ed, thank you for that description of Beall. That sounds very much like the Beall I knew, but with a lot of “Doug” thrown in.

      • NeverAgain Says:

        I’m posting a link that is a biography of Doug’s mom (who is an intelligent, take-charge woman in her own right, but who gets almost no recognition in the VF world). The biography speaks favorably about Beall. http://www.howardphillips.com/archive0905.htm

      • Jen Says:

        NeverAgain, yes, I would love to see Beall be all she can be, but with all the brainwashing she has been through these last twenty years, I do not know if she could ever leave him.

    • Mike Race Says:

      I remember reading somewhere on the blog that DP controls all the purse strings of the family. She, if I am correct doesn’t even have her name on the checking or bank accounts. This could make it a problem of leaving as well. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

    • Jen Says:

      Corrine, I do not know how he currently treats her, but I am sure there were many perceived benefits to staying in the relationship. I don’t know if any of those benefits now exist, and what will happen from here.

  28. Idontgetit Says:

    First Jen, I am sorry for what you suffered I wish I could take your pain and you could fine freedom. You and the others here would not consider me a “Christian”. I hold to the validity of the Theory of Evolution, I hold to an old earth / universe, I deny we are some totally depraved species and other such beliefs. But I do respect those that hold to these beliefs I even think it should be allowed to be taught in public school, maybe in another class other than science. I even think that the Bible should be taught as literature in public school. I even hold to the government totally butting out of what people preach in their pulpits. Agreed some abuse this but most Christian’s IE 95%+ are honest folks and they need their constitutional rights protected. Basically I am a liberal person who actually is looking for a reason to believe in Jesus again. The science angle does not work, because there is no angle what so ever, trust me I look, no dont trust me go look.

    Apart from that, when I heard about Doug Phillips and his “fall” my first prayer, yes I still do pray, I do not expect God to listen, that is an unrealistic expectation. My prayer was first for the lady involved, Mr. Phillip’s children and his wife, others who would be hurt and for Mr. Phillips himself. Because I never glory in the fall of another human being, being one that has fallen many times. I even avoided the snark sites that rake on Mr. Phillips, if you wish to know my unregenerate satanic worshiping response, I wanted his kids, the person involved, and his children and wife safe. That makes me a spawn of Satan,I get that I dont but I do. In my unregenerate state I hate to see families hurt, I agree that is evil and vile by some Christian standards. The family / victim should take the hit to protect the real “offender” if that offender is powerful, charismatic and the absolutely the most important is able to generate income. I agree with that to some degree religion is first and foremost a business and thus capitalistic money market ideology should, and are Holy and God ordained. I get that, I dont agree it but I get it.

    As this escalates I truly grieve for the people involved, being unregenerate and God hating person I am I have not been able to not feel for those hurt. Trust me I have tried to reach that spiritual plateau but I can’t proving my utter depravity I have empathy. So why do I continue to cling to the Christian Religion because it is the only “system” that offers hope for the “least of these” and an eventual reconciliation. So to my shame I became a universalist. I wanted to see everyone saved because I actually think Jesus did do that at the cross. Granted this is emotional and is not accurate to the biblical text but I have my reasons.

    I dont know what Mr. Phillips did, I still believe in innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, another vile evil and filthy sin on my part. If one looks at Christian history in the west, this has never, and I do mean never have been the truth, tens of thousands died proving this point. Of course from the “Calvinist” world view we all have it coming, from my personal experience this is utter nonsense on its face. I ran into the Bill Gothard nonsense back n the early 80’s. I went to one Gothard “concert” I listened for about 5 minutes then walked out of the venue. I remember thinking this guy is a tool. I had the same response the first time I heard Mr. Phillips blathering on about some nonsense about we are a Christian nation and let us get back to our roots clap trap. I though he is a major tool. I am unregenerate, an enemy of God etc. and I saw through this clown’s rhetoric. I am just some pagan worshiping what ever. I have been accused of being a Jesuit infiltrator, which I find very flattering, I always want to be included with the “mud people” they are the heart and soul. If you dont understand that may I state you do not understand your own Gospel. I consider myself out past left field in the spiritual Colosseum I am outside the parking lot in the very very cheep seats. But from that seat it is not good news, it never has been. Just a bit of advice to the Pr firm who handles Jesus’ Pr. It is not good news, it never has been. Ever. Offered for what very little it is worth.

    PS Mr Phillips me and you are as far apart as people can be in world view, Mr. Phillips fall into His arms he well forgive and restore you. Do Him honor the dear Lord Jesus will restore you in an even more powerful testimony. Your wife and kids are worth it and so are you and so is the other people involved. God can work this out. I am an unregenerate heathen and I even see it. Of course nothing will happen, that is my experience in the Christian franchise. Mr Phillips if you want someone to pray with, I wont post what you say, I will talk to you on the phone and pray with you and anything you say outside of illegal activity, which I do not accuse you with I wont repeat. I actually want to see you restored. I really do. Know this I pray for you and your family, I will admit I do pray more for those who have been hurt. Look I understand this is rather pathetic and well basically stupid. I never quite got that concerning the Christian religion never have.

    • Grace Farmer Says:

      IDONTGETIT, Hey there, Idontgetit half the time, make that most of the time either. From what I read about you, I believe that you are a fine, upstanding human and believe me you are not the unregenerate heathen you make yourself out to be. You have a tender heart and a beautiful karma. In my opinion, you are a fine friend and someone who wishes that the good that was in your heart was everywhere. Christmas and all year round hugs to you.

    • Jen Says:

      Idontgetit, welcome! I am sorry that you have been treated this way by those who profess Christ. It sounds to me like you still have not only a lot of common sense, but a lot of love, a lot of faith, and a lot of hurt as well.

      I would love to have a conversation with you privately. Would you please email me or message me on Facebook, since this would all be off topic to the conversation here. Thanks!

      • Scott Says:

        Hi Idontgetit, I totally enjoyed reading your post. For the longest time I just said it a bit differently ” I’m looking for a reason to trust Christians again”. Unfortunately I never found a reason, but God proved his never ending faithfulness many times over and has healed me ( as much as you can be anyway). Merry Christmas and May you find peace

        • Donna Says:

          I think the key here is that we must trust CHRIST, not Christians. It is hard when the fruit of sin is often so visible, including the sin of Christians (we still battle the flesh here on earth), but the difference is that when we have the forgiveness of Christ — it is by GRACE that we are saved, not works — we have a Hope in which to put our trust even when the people around us fail.

          Yes, God’s faithfulness is never ending! I’m glad you’ve found some healing, Scott.

        • cptruthlover Says:

          I agree wholeheartedly!

        • Jen Says:

          Amen, Donna!

    • Jackie C. Says:

      Idontgetit, a lot of Christians believe the same things you do – old earth and the meaning of Jesus’ death on the cross for starters, so many of us would never say you are not a Christian. There are many ways to interpret the Bible.

  29. xenia Says:

    There was a case in Sweden where a pastor made his nanny/lover kill his wife. He is a sociopath. He did not believe in divorce. His first wife had died under suspicious circumstances as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knutby_murder

  30. Corrine Says:

    Also wanted to add that I have friends that went to a conference in May where DP spoke. They said they talked to the 2 of them quite a bit and DP & Beall acted happy. So weird if she had found out by then. Sad.

    • OtOLi Says:

      I was at that conference (or at least one conference he spoke at in May). We have followed VF for about 8 years, although we recognized that some of the views are extreme. The whole Phillips family was there. After Doug’s keynote message, our family went up to talk with them (we had never met them before). My wife had a nice chat with Beall about the recent passing of Doug’s father. Our daughters and I chatted with Joshua.

      What was extremely odd was that after Doug finished his message, he came and sat down beside one of his daughters (I think) and the two of them talked as if they were oblivious to anyone else around. It seemed weird at the time, since normally speakers engage with people from the audience after their message. Doug and his daughter were in their own little world. We left after 10-15 minutes, and the two of them were still completely focused on only themselves.

      After reading about everything else that has been going on, I am very concerned for the family. The following video was also very troubling: http://vimeo.com/59454915 (start watching at the 5:00 minute mark).

      • Jen Says:

        OtOLi, I am sorry that you did not feel welcome at that conference by Doug, but you are certainly welcome here!

        Doug has a way of giving you his full attention when he is speaking to you, which makes a person feel special and heard. He also does that with his children. However, in this case, it sounds like he either had his priorities mixed up or he simply didn’t want to talk to other people. Perhaps he was emotionally drained from his father’s death? I can give him that much. But it does sound very rude indeed.

        Many outsiders mention that video about his daughter, but to us who know them, we know that Doug is just being Doug. 🙂

      • Dom Walk Says:

        How do you say “marionette on strings” in Italian?

  31. Kay Says:

    Hi, Jen. First time to reply…reader of your blog for a few months. I have had a growing suspicion for the past four years that the next big wave of “change” to hit the church will be a move toward embracing polygamy. At this point, many of us are still abhorred by the thought, just like we were not long ago abhorred by homosexuality. But look at what is happening in most of our long standing denominations…acceptance of a once thought of sin. More and more mainstream denominations are placing know homosexuals in positions of leadership. More and more mainstream denominations are consenting to perform and support homosexual “unions”. In the secular world, more states are moving toward legalizing homosexual unions. It is, in both the realm of “churchanity” and in the secular world, only a matter of time before homosexuality will be an ‘accepted’ form of ‘marriage’. Polygamy will be right on its heels. There are those in the US already actively practicing this form of ‘union’. And if (meaning when) homosexuality moves to a legal form of marriage in our society, the polygamist will begin to scream that they are being discriminated against, and will demand equal ‘protection and acceptance’ under the law. The ‘church’ will eventually follow suit. In my eyes, the ‘church’ in the US is more concerned with conformity and ‘not rocking the secular boat’ then she is with truly being a light in a dark world. (I am a bit jaded that way! )

    People like Doug Phillips, with their penchance for following only the Old Testament, would easily embrace polygamy and justify it under some twisted thinking that it would be the “only” means that God would be able to change our country back to its Christian roots. You know, like God would give a ‘new’ directive. ‘New’ revelation. With the acceptance of what was once thought wrong gaining so much ground in our secular world (homosexuality), it is very easy to make the jump to embracing polygamy, even within the ‘church’. When one studies the history of the Mormons, one can understand how easy a lie is to embrace when put under the guise of ‘new revelation’. (and herein lies another bend down that slippery slope of ‘acceptance of things once considered wrong’….it has been only since the 1990’s that the Mormons have made such tremendous headway into ‘mainstream Christianity’…and now, a group once considered a cult, is now consider a mainstream christian church….see how easy polygamy will be accepted too?) And while I am in my mid-fifties, I believe that we will see the acceptance, as mainstream, of polygamy in my lifetime.

    I am not trying to stir up any discussion about the Mormons here, just using them as a point of reference of how easy it is, once you start down the slope of compromise, to accept as truth something you once believed as a lie.

    I believe its possible that Beall, while perhaps not really wanting to go along with Doug’s ‘extra marital affair’ (which I believe she was aware of long, long ago…for most women know when their husband has slept with/or has had some sexual involvement with another woman), could easily (and may still ) be influenced to accept a younger woman sharing her marriage bed for the sake of a. keeping the family together, b. not upsetting her very controlling husband, and/or c. because maybe “I am just wrong. Maybe God really is moving His people back toward polygamy, as we do have to take over the nation after all. And since I am getting older, we do need someone to have more children to ‘grow the christian population’. ”

    See how easy it would be? And Doug, who could exercise such tremendous control over even you, Jen (in that he could cause you such pain in being ‘excommunicated from his group’…and believe me when I say, I understand, as I have allowed that same sort of control over me to happen twice in the past 36 years), could he not exercise that same control over his own wife? And perhaps even more so?

    Is is not possible that this whole house of cards has come crashing down now, not because this woman decided she’d ‘had enough of being used’, and not because Beall had decided she’d had enough, but because one of the children caught Doug and this woman together, and that child finally ‘saw the light’?

    Just my thoughts………for whatever it’s worth.

    • Jackie C. Says:

      You’re forgetting the role of the state when you compare polygamy and its possible acceptance and marriage between gays and lesbians. The whole role of marriage from the view of the state is to protect inheritance. Polygamy would create incredible legal messes, which is just one reason it won’t be accepted. Another is most women just aren’t in need of protectors like they were years ago. And they have no need to be so dependant on men. Most people have friends or family who are gay so they get it. Most people will never buy into polygamy.

      • Keith blankenship Says:

        I have to disagree. There is really no legal impediment I can see to legalisation of polygamy. After Lawrence v. Texas, and then the Windsor case, polygamy may well be a constitutional right, albeit one of which we were only recently unaware. I can see both equal protection and religious liberty arguments being made.

      • Donna Says:

        Jackie C., I’m afraid you must be very naive about “most people never buying into polygamy”. There are numerous fringe groups, including the Mormons and various cults, who’ve done it for YEARS already. There was once a time when most people really DIDN’T buy into homosexuality and unmarrieds living together s*xually, but look at our society now. Polygamy is the next logical step, especially when you have you people like Phillips, Botkin, et al. pushing an Old Testament patriarchal society on us.

        I do agree with you that it would create incredible legal messes (and disagree with Keith Blankenship) because the *economical* laws and programs in place in this country are not written to accommodate ANY marriages or so-called “married-like relationships” outside of one man and one woman. (Including polygamy.) It will be a NIGHTMARE to re-write all the Medicare, Medicaid, private insurance, Social Security, etc. etc. codes. I have a nephew who is gay and recently drove to a state on the other side of the country to “marry” his partner because civil unions aren’t yet legal in his residence state…. but he can’t be covered under his partner’s insurance *because* they aren’t recognized… regardless of the “marriage” ceremony in another state. This is what the liberal politicians in D.C. have attempted to do with Obamacare — to force and override the laws that have already been in place. But as you can see, it’s a MESS.

        There are dire consequences throughout an entire society when trying to force the acceptance of these kinds of relationships. Whether one *personally* agrees with them or not, we can’t say that there aren’t any LEGAL impediments. With polygamy in particular, exactly which wife would have the right to the husband’s Social Security and retirement benefits when he dies? And which children? Those are *federal* programs, not state. That’s just one small (though not so small) example.

        • Jackie C. Says:

          You may think I’m naive but the fringe groups of which you speak are not the majority of the population. I have been aware of groups secretly having multiple wives for years. But that’s not the same as the state recognizing the marriage. And it’s not like gay marriage at all. That’s still between two people who want the same rights as other couples. But the big ccorporations would fight with everything they have against pologamy because they won’t have to have more dependents on their insurance plans. And it would drive up the costs of Medicaid and food stamps incredibly. Most of those who want this life style are not the types where all the adults will have excellent jobs with the financial ability to support a middle-class lifestyle. For one thing, and this may be because of what I’ve seen and heard, many buy into the baby after baby philosophy. And women with many pregnancies generally don’t move up the ladder in their jobs very quickly.

          And then there’s the political support for it. Republicans aren’t going going to support it because big business won’t. And the Democrats won’t.

          Now I wouldn’t mind multiple husbands. Just think of all the work that could get done around the house.

        • Jen Says:

          Multiple husbands, Jackie? No, thank you!!! One best friend will do just fine for me!

        • Jackie C. Says:

          oneh20,
          Your link was interesting and proved my point. “At the time, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff responded that the bigamy law is different because it involves entire families, not just consenting adults.”

          The law struck down related to
          the illegality of people residing with someone not their spouse. That’s different than legal marriages. And as the attorney general pointed out, marriage affects the entire family, not just the adults, as cohabitation does.

          How does one support 25 children anyway (if they don’t have a TV show?)

        • Jackie C. Says:

          Jen,
          It is true that I would have my favorite – I’d just keep the others around as free labor and a source of funds 🙂

    • Jen Says:

      Kay, welcome and thank you for your thoughts. You laid it out very well how polygamy could gradually become accepted in this country and in the church. I agree that that certainly is a possibility.

      Regarding Beall, it is very difficult to know what she was thinking regarding Cassandra. I can’t see how she could NOT know. But she would have far MORE to lose (power, fame, fortune, lifestyle) than the average wife with a cheating husband, so Doug likely had far more leeway in that area. Beall had/has a very difficult to decision to make indeed. And yes, her decision has to be filtered through twenty years of brainwashing as well.

    • Rose Says:

      I agree with your theory. But if I recall correctly the family does not believe in birth control? Would that apply to Cassandra as well? She is a young (presumably) healthy fertile woman.

      • Jen Says:

        Yes, Rose, they are adamantly opposed to birth control. Doug says he did not know her biblically but many don’t believe that. However, I’m sure they knew that certain days of the month are safer than others.

        • End it Says:

          I mean, on the outside, you would have thought they were adamantly opposed to cheating on your spouse…just saying..

      • zooey111 Says:

        There are, from my observation, a percentage of people who “don’t believe in birth control” who will, nonetheless, use it when they need to hide what they are doing from somebody.
        There are good honest folks who don’t believe in using birth control, & then there are those who don’t believe in their wives using birth control, but the women other than their wives are a whole other story. (Yet another reason, IMO, to recognize DP as a sociopath).

    • Scott Says:

      Kay, I hope you are wrong. I’m having a hard enough time finding one wife, if I have to find more than one christian mingle just ain’t gonna cut it. Looks like I’m just not ment to be a patriarch, LOL

      I think I will Jen for that. This site pretty much soured my views on the “movement” .

      Glad I don’t measure up.

    • Donna Says:

      Kay, I agree with you *completely*! I typed my reply to Jackie below before seeing your post. I would love to sit down and chat with you IRL over a cup of coffee or cocoa. 🙂

      It hadn’t occurred to me that one of the children catching them could actually have been the catalyst that turned over his whole gig. It’s a very good possibility, though. I agree with you that Beall *probably* knew what was going on for a long time, but chose to sweep it under the rug for whatever reason.

  32. Dawn Says:

    This gets more sickening by the day. I feel so sad for “Cassandra”, Beall, and the kids. “Cassandra” is close to my age and its awful to think that an entire decade of her adult life was used and wasted. She is a very pretty lady and probably could have her pick of a good man. I pray she will break free from this circle of crazy people and find some true Christians who will love her and see her as something more than an “adulteress”.

    • just a shadow Says:

      Yes, she needs to leave the circle of crazy. I said this in an earlier comment on a different article, but there are MANY people who need to repent in this community. There are MANY people who have followed a “worldly pattern” for years all the while wearing dresses only, not sending kids to college, arranging courtships for their kids, having babies, babies, babies, all the while deceiving themselves that somehow, they were holy. So how are they “worldly”? They are worldly b/c they act exactly like the world. They maintain an “preferred” list of who is invited to events, and who is not. They violate the scriptures by preferring wealthy, well connected families over those of humble means ( unless said humble family fills the token “hey look we have a poor/’missionary” friend'” spot). They are guilty of shunning certain people for small violations of Gothard/VF rules ( your daughter wore JEANS, your son likes Abraham Lincoln- big no no) then blithely giving a pass for the SAME VIOLATION to those on the “preferred” list. The community here for years has operated in the same way, and IN THE SAME SPIRIT as wealthy secular social circuits. This COMMUNITY ( not just DP) has shipwrecked the faith of numerous young people locally. This COMMUNITY (not just DP) is guilty of MUCH hypocrisy, meanness, pettiness, and backstabbing.

      And one reason that JG was able to inflict her machinations on others’ sons/husbands for SO long is very simple:

      SHE WAS ON THE “preferred” LIST AND WAS FRIENDS WITH THE “RIGHT” PEOPLE.

      Anyone with a 1/2 teaspoon of discernment could tell upon meeting & talking to JG that SOMETHING was very amiss about her. It was OBVIOUS. But she continued to be on the “preferred” list for YEARS. YEARS!!!

      This COMMUNITY EMBRACED a full grown MARRIED woman who was actively preying on others sons at the very SAME TIME that they were excluding others for not being “like minded” enough.

      They looked the other way. I do NOT believe that at ALL those parties, NO ONE saw what JG was doing.

      They excused the overt flirtations of a grown MARRIED woman with children at the SAME TIME they were shunning young people for NO GOOD REASON.

      Why? SHE WAS ON THE “preferred” LIST and the rules are not the same for the “preferred” list as they are for the masses.

      How did she get on the “preferred” list? Not totally sure, but most likely her status in DP’s circle.

      And I’m not all that shocked that others looked the other way concerning DP and Cassandra.

      They had already had YEARS of training in applying “rules” selectively. By the time the affair came around, it was second nature to give it a “pass”, look the other way, and keep him on the “preferred” list.

      Because, that’s the way things are done around here.

      • just a shadow Says:

        And by way of clarification:

        There is the BCA church in which I know that many “unimportant” families tried to bring about some type of church response to JG. But some of those were “nobody” and were easily brushed aside.

        There are the “sister” churches.

        Then, there is the local, home school “party” circuit. It is the “party” circuit ” that I am mainly addressing in the above comment.

      • T.W. Eston Says:

        Jennifer Grady has been an A-lister for a number of years. She made it on the list even prior to moving to San Antonio, as a member of Jim Zes’ church in Saint Louis. Jim Zes has been a long time Vision Forum Ministries board member. Jennifer Grady is very well connected, but other than Jim Zes I may not be dropping any other names of her connections. At this point they’re all probably running for cover.

        • Angela Wittman Says:

          Thanks TW! I met Jim around 12 years ago while protesting abortion at the Hope (less) abortion mill in Granite City, IL. Jim eventually vanished from the abortion mill protest scene and I wondered what happened to him and previous involvement in local issues… Now I know. May God help us all who have been waylaid by the Christian Reconstruction, idol worship movement. I remember that as a woman leader in the Illinois Constitution Party i was frowned upon by Jim’s wife at a Judge Roy Moore event; I eventually lost contact with Jim… This was around 2003.

        • Freedom from Chaos Says:

          Isn’t it interesting that this church is RCA and Doug’s is BCA………creepy! Yes, JG was part of that church in STL, along with her parent’s, late brother Michael and sister Jamie, along with Bob Renaud’s family (mom & dad). Bob Renaud used to be Doug Philiip’s right hand man (prior to Peter Bradrick). This is all making me very sick to my stomach.

        • Jen Says:

          Freedom from Chaos, the deeper you look, the more intricately woven is the web.

      • Jen Says:

        Just a Shadow, wow. I am SO glad we were excommunicated nearly nine years ago now. It sounds like things have changed tremendously, for the worse. I saw just a hint of that when I was there, but not at all to the degree that you describe. That is awful.

        I think there may be more than one reason why Jennifer Grady was on that “preferred” list.

  33. MomT Says:

    What is the age of the oldest DP boy?

  34. Sarah Says:

    TW I am feeling a little confused. I thought I had read on previous comments by you that Cassandra was the one who ended the affair and outed Doug and forced his resignation and then her and her family left BCA. Now
    you are saying that they were caught red handed by either Beall or Doug(you don’t sound 100 percent sure who) and that was what caused the resignation and Cassandra’s family leaving BCA. So if Beall and Josh knew about this since Feb. as well as BCA elder and Deacon, then they stood silently by while Doug paraded around at conferences, speaking engagements, the Launching of the HJS 2013 Expeditions. Is that what you are saying TW? Because Josh was still singing his fathers praises on Twitter after Feb. You would think if he caught them and forced a resignation he would be a little more shocked, upset and appalled at his Heros fall from grace. Something is just not adding up here.

    • Just a shadow Says:

      You know what I’ve been wondering? Do his kids even know? Or has some elaborate tale been told to them about why they are having to move/close the business? Frankly, that would not surprise me at all.

      • Jen Says:

        Just a Shadow, I think at least the oldest one knows, but I would guess that the others have been told a very glossy version of what is happening right now.

        • Interesting Says:

          Even in the immediate weeks preceding the announcement of the closing of the business side of VF, the older Phillips sons seemed to have no idea that the family business was imminently going away. In conversation, their long term vocational goals remained with VF along with continued praise of their father.

        • Jen Says:

          Interesting, why do you think that is? Do you think he is so used to Cassandra being a part of his life that she is just “family” to him?

        • just a shadow Says:

          Yep. He’s probably woven a pretty tale about how they are having to move/close down due to some type of “persecution of the godly”.

        • MomT Says:

          Jen – JP could have a big crush on Cassandra himself. He could be really torn between loving/hating her and torn between his loyalties to her “honor” or his dad’s. He is the one I feel the most empathy for in this whole situation.

        • Jen Says:

          I had not considered that very real possibility!

        • watchfuleyes Says:

          MomT: the apple doesn’t fall far off of the Tree!

    • Jen Says:

      Sarah, there is a whole LOT that is not adding up, and we do not have all the facts, but what we have reported has been told to us by several people. There are many things here that do not make sense to us either.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      Sarah, I couldn’t agree more that it doesn’t add up. It’s been a major head-scratcher for me too. The problem for logically-minded people in trying to sort this all out is there are too many things for which there are no logical explanations. You’d have to live in a religious sociological cult yourself for awhile to make any sense of it, and even after it started to make some sense to you, you’d have an incredibly difficult time explaining it to anyone else so it made any sense to them. I apologize for falling so short of my goals. Please believe me when I say it’s incredibly challenging.

      As to any confusion you might have over chronologies, my apologies if I haven’t filled in all the necessary details in this article. I’m trying to strike some balance between not being overly wordy while giving an adequate narrative. I’d recommend reading my previous articles. Doing so will clear up a lot of questions. Quoting from Yet Another Doug Phillips Sex Scandal:

      In January 2013 another mass exodus occurred when half of the remaining church (approximately ten families) left BCA. Around the same time, the young lady that Doug Phillips had been carrying on a long-term “inappropriate relationship” with also left BCA, as did her family. In February Doug Phillips stepped down as Teaching Elder.

      • Scott Says:

        So the ” church” is only ten families now ?
        That is pretty hilarious, everything Doug touches eventually turns into a mess of a joke.

  35. thatmom Says:

    Darrell and Kay,

    I want to address the polygamy aspect of this story.

    Our family came out of both the ATI movement and the FIC movement. We know many, many people still committed to the patriocentric vision and, in spite of Doug Phillips’ adultery, refuse to consider that his behavior is the natural end to his teachings.

    I have spent the past 7 years researching, podcasting, and writing about this movement and have long believed that polygamy is the next trend among those who are committed to the paradigm rather than the Word of God.

    This was confirmed to me earlier this year when I was contacted by a woman who was in her state’s homeschool leadership. She was quite concerned that “Christian polygamist homeschoolers” had started attending their group activities where young, eligible, stay-at-home daughters attended. Some in her group were as alarmed as she was and wanted to draft a statement prohibiting their attendance. Others believed that there was room to accept their beliefs since the Old Testament example of the patriarchs included polygamy. I happened to know a young woman who was now married but who had grown up in the same area and contacted her. Indeed, she confirmed that she personally knew two “Christian polygamist homeschooling” families also living there.

    When my husband first heard this recent story about Doug’s adultery and spiritual abuse, he remarked that if this had happened another 10 years further into his 200 year plan, it probably wouldn’t even be considered adultery but just a second wife to further the reconstructionst agenda that demands militant fecundity, hence more and younger wives.

    I also remember when the FLDS cult was raided and the children were removed. There was much discussion on patriocentric blogs, many of them written by women, who sided with the cult and the abusive men rather than the vulnerable children. I believed then, and still do, that these teachings are priming even the women to accept polygamy.

    As Jen has repeatedly reminded her readers, the Old Testament is the standard for the patriocentric movement and polygamy is the obvious, natural conclusion.

    • JPGR Says:

      The cougar seductress in the previous article was apparently fond of saying that all great men have many women.

      I wonder if she made that up herself, or if DP taught her that?

    • Jen Says:

      Thatmom, welcome back! Thank you for all the work you are doing in this area. I know you have spent many years researching all this.

      Ten MORE years would have been a LONG time to continue to hide this relationship, and unfortunately for Cassandra, would have put her at nearly the end of her child-bearing years, with probably no children. I guess that would have defeated the whole purpose of taking more wives for militant fecundity!

      I personally know one homeschool stay-at-home daughter who married into polygamy (and loves it). I know of many “Christian” polygamy situations. It is a growing movement now.

      If Doug could only have waited those ten years …

      • watchfuleyes Says:

        I personally know one homeschool stay-at-home daughter who married into polygamy (and loves it). I know of many “Christian” polygamy situations. It is a growing movement now.

        I am shocked…….saddened…….and don’t want to believe that this is true!

        • Keith blankenship Says:

          Would you name some of the leaders of “Christian” polygamy? Any names of groups or organisations?
          As i noted on another post, pastors should be warning us of such groups/people by name. How are the people in the pews to know whom to avoid? These so-called patriarchalists are already giving the decent home school people a bad name. We should name and shame polygamists.

        • where are the authorities?? Says:

          another even more dangerous than dp I feel to be watching is the Michael Bunker cult in TX. A compound of families. He has far surpassed what DP has done. Liberal in many ways and not so much in others… Polygamy wouldnt surprise me from him MB

        • oneh20 Says:

          So when people say, “They went off the grid”, are they likely referring to a Michael Bunker influence?

      • DesiringToDiscern Says:

        We have been surprised that there have not been any more children between DP and Beall… given his stance on this issue. It has been years.

        • Jen Says:

          DesiringToDiscern, I believe there was at least one miscarriage. Perhaps Beall is no longer able to bear children. I doubt if it was for lack of trying.

      • DesiringToDiscern Says:

        I remember feeling badly for Beall when DP was on stage ADMIRING Jim Bob’s wife, Michelle, in regard to her having SO many blessings…. and wishing that he had more but no explanation. DP was acting in a very insensitive way to his wife.

    • Keith blankenship Says:

      I agree that polygamy may be the next “trend”. Would you share some of the names/groups of people involved in furthering this thoroughly repugnant idea? Christians need to know about this sort of thing so that we can avoid any association with it.

    • Scott Says:

      Well I feel sorry for the guy that marries both the Botkin girls. Wow imagine having the same whacked out in laws for both wives. I can see how that could get you sucked in even deeper,

      ” well I better go find myself a third or fourth wife that doesn’t have nutcases for parents “.

      I wonder if a guy could marry all three of Jim Zess’s daughters with only one set of rings. They can like take turns wearing the engagement ring/wedding ring. What a value, that even beats super couponing.

      • Jen Says:

        You WANT three Zes sister wives, Scott? 😉

        What’s sad is that so many of these stay-at-home daughters, who have followed Doug’s brand of patriarchy by the book, are still available. Perhaps there is hope for some normal, healthy marriages yet.

    • zooey111 Says:

      I totally agree with what you are saying. I believe that polygamy is going to be the next step in hyperpatriarchal circles. In fact, I have been fearing that it was all ready happening, but that the rest of us hadn’t yet tipped to that fact. It looks like I was right….. 😦

  36. sweet t Says:

    Unbelievable. Doug’s actions make me sick.
    One question that I keep thinking about is where was Cassandra’s father? I presume he learned of this relationship around the time Doug stepped down as an elder at BCA. If I were her father I would have ended their relationship then and left Doug in a bloody heap. Has there been any visible outrage from her family?

    • Jen Says:

      Sweet t, Cassandra’s father is a very quiet, gentle man. Her mother is more likely to do something. However, I do not know exactly what has been, or is being, done about it.

  37. Corrine Says:

    Hopefully, Beall will seek out her parents now. You would think
    She would have some leverage now.

    • Jen Says:

      Corrine, I really hope that Beall’s relationship with her parents will be restored. Doug taught, no, hammered on honoring your parents, yet he apparently was the one responsible for dividing his wife from her parents? Hypocrisies abound.

  38. Concerned Says:

    I can’t say that I am shocked by any of this. I can spot a narcissist a mile away as this movement is full of them. I have been concerned for several years about Doug Phillips’ influence on Joe and Becky Morecraft. I have always had a high regard for Joe but have seen changes in his view of the role of women in recent years that mirror Doug Phillips’ views. I was dismayed to hear a sermon Joe preached indicating that women should not have the right to vote. Also, alarming is this movements view that the Great Commission only applies to men and that spiritual gifts are given only to men. When a woman is viewed as property and not a person, these kind of abuses quickly follow. This is so contrary to the teachings of Christ, there is no male and female, and to the new testament examples of Lydia, Priscilla, the daughters of Phillip and SO MANY others. I pray that out of tragedy MANY will re-examine their view of women in the Church and in society.

    • Turkey Says:

      Anyone see the odd picture from the Greece cruise with DP as tour guide, and the Morecrafts in the back with their backs toward him? They had their eyes opened, apparently, in September.

    • Scott Says:

      You know women not being able to vote is kind of counter productive to their dream of becoming a political player. Despite Doug’s dreams of the constitution party someday amounting to something on a national level, so far it’s a huge JOKE. When his pop ran for President most Americans didn’t even hear about him, much less see him on their ballot. The party has been and always will be a epic failure. All you have to do is a bit of research into their candidates and then expose them.

      Exhibit ( A ) herein Virginia the Republican Party just ran a quiverfull proponent for governor, an anti- birth control clown for attorney general and a preacher for LT governor. Even with the anti-0bama trend, the health care melt down, and the three boobs the dems ran, WE still lost all three offices in a fairly conservative state.

      People don’t want some religious nut running their government. We remember what happens every time there has been a theocracy anywhere in the world.

  39. Julie Says:

    Amazing.

  40. Jean Says:

    WOW! It’s almost too much to take in, isn’t it. I thank God that He, in His grace, spared our family of the Patriarchy movement. We have been friends with most of the people involved – and they often thought I was a foolish woman for not buying into much of what they preached. I know the family whose daughter has entered into a polygamous marriage. I know one woman who is struggling right now to break free from the chains of legalism from this movement and move on to living in the freedom of love and grace. I know young men who struggle to work for other people. While I do not know the story, Justin V’s comments – however angry – made my heart ache to the deepest part. You can FEEL the pain in his words. Bless him. I am so sorry… I ache for the victims. Thank you for the grace you extended toward him, Jen.
    To the people who have doubts about what Jen and T.W. have written – I can tell you I have also heard from people who were first-hand witnesses. They have said that EVERYTHING written here by Jen and T.W. is truth. T.W.’s previous article did help me to understand how easily we become ensnared. Thank you, T.W. It’s helped me from being too judgmental. After all, we are all decieved in one way or another, and only through the help and wisdom of the Holy Spirit can God shed light on those areas of our lives.
    Jen and T.W. … A few questions if you are able to answer without revealing too much.
    1. If this ‘relationship’ (I say that sarcastically) was brought to light in January, how in the world was it allowed to continue through October?
    Why wasn’t Doug held accountable in January – and I mean ACCOUNTABLE! This boggles my mind!
    2. Did her parents allow her to continue in his ministry even after this was brought out into the light of day?
    3. Do you know if this ring was given to her by Doug?
    4. Clarification – Beall and/or Joshua has known since January?
    5. Could you connect the dots to when this happened and when the VFM scandal happened. Was one the result of another or didn’t have to do with January incident. What made the board take a closer look at the books?
    6. If you know, did Little Bear, Welch’s, J.L. Peter B. have knowledge of either scandal previous to February? Unless you bring this to light, how does it stop? Has nothing to do with ‘gossip’.
    7. How is her family dealing with how their precious daughter was abused by manipulation by this man in authority?
    8. What is happening with the Phillip’s family? Will they be given more time in the house provided by the now defunct VFM.
    9. If you know, will they sell the home and building on Blanco?
    10. WHY, WHY, WHY was Doug allowed to continue his work on the Film Conference in light of these issues?
    11. In light of Peter B’s courage in coming forth about his crushing disappointment regarding the confrontation with Doug, do you see any more men coming forward with the truth?
    Sorry for all the questions. T.W. and Jen – you are the epitome of overcomers. I thank God for how the both of you have not embraced anger or bitterness.

    • Dom Walk Says:

      “I know young men who struggle to work for other people.”

      From my admittedly limited experience, one of the most ironic aspects of this movement is the mix of arrogance, ignorance and incompetence among the young men who have been raised in it. I would have expected them to at least be minimally polite and responsible, but have seen the exact opposite, unless the interactions are within the innermost circle.

      • Half truths abound Says:

        The guys who have gotten out of the inner circle and are working in various professions and actually being salt and light seem to be doing OK at least to me.

    • Turkey Says:

      12: What did YOU know, Mr Brown, and when did you know it? And before you knew it, why not?

  41. Latoya Says:

    This is just…wow.

    How is anyone surprised that Americans increasingly see clergy members as as having zero moral authority? I hope all the victims can heal and move on. I really wish there was something that could be done to help women and children burned by this cult. Both boys and girls need to be fully educated (not just knitting and baking),and be conditioned to think critically. The result may be that they walk away from religion. As a parent, that is a risk I’m willing to take if it will decrease the chances that they won’t become victims of hoaxes, cults, or scams and the predators that head these organizations up. I see this as a warning to others. Thanks.

  42. Dom Walk Says:

    “This prohibition of divorce in all cases only makes sense in light of Theonomy.”

    I’d strongly argue the opposite. Theonomy doesn’t speak to marriage, as far as I know, and the OT presentation of marriage is much less exalted then the NT. It is Christ who told the religious leaders that divorce was allowed because of the hardness of hard, but that from the beginning, it was not so.

    Not to mention that Theonomy’s founder, and the root from which most of the Dominionist bad fruit grows, Rushdooney, was divorced and remarried.

    If anything, I’d argue that Theonomists have a much more pragmatic (and OT) view of marriage than does traditional conservative Christianity. Hence, the “mixed feelings” about polygamy, the chattel view of wife and children, and the relative tolerance of Phillips’ “fornication” (*she* wasn’t married).

    • Dom Walk Says:

      “Theonomy doesn’t speak to marriage”. Sorry, should be “… doesn’t speak especially to divorce”.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      Dom Walk, I won’t defend a position I never took in the first place. Go back and read again. In fact I quite agree with you, other than “Theonomy doesn’t speak to marriage”. Rushdoony certainly addressed the subjects of marriage extensively, including marital faithfulness, divorce, monogamy and polygamy. Most of it rather ho hum conservative Christian family values stuff, and all that.

      Something noteworthy though is that Rushdoony made what some people assumed at the time were crackpot predictions about the future of polygamy in America. The church largely ignored him as they ignored many of his other warnings. Rushdoony wasn’t right in all his doctrines, but he was often remarkably prescient.

      Doug Phillips is a great admirer and student of Rushdoony. However, Rushdoony would have been no fan of Doug Phillips. He would have viewed Phillips as an interloper and perverter of his teachings. Doug’s extremist views on divorce would be just one example where they would have parted company.

      • D.L F Says:

        T.W, what was Vision Forum’s definition of adultery? On some websites, I have read that adultery only occurs when the woman in question is married. I realize that is an uncommon view in most of Christianity but is it possible that the inner circle among Doug’s friends and interns held a similar definition of adultery?

        • Donna Says:

          If that were the case, then they’d have to completely ignore Jesus’ teachings in the Sermon on the Mount where He described even *looking* upon a woman lustfully as adultery. But that wouldn’t surprise me, given the fact that these folks are preaching and teaching primarily from the OLD Testament in order to bring the patriarchal society back into being here in the U.S.

  43. Observer Says:

    Jen, T.W.

    I urge you to think about the future (perhaps you already have). Please choose carefully to put your notes/research in the hands of someone in academia/press who godly (first and foremost), smart, removed from this, and recognized in the secular world as well—perhaps someone who is in cultural sociology or psychology. The results of this kind of work (for Jen many years) will be invaluable. And pray a lot for discernment.

  44. MomT Says:

    Watchfuleyes – link please for the neighbor’s comments on SBB?

      • Jen Says:

        Jayhawk, it is interesting that she also admits that Cassandra could have been lying to her about it. I mean, she bought a ring that size (with what money?) just to keep away guys at the gas station? We all know that MOST of the men she is around in life are all VF/BCA guys so they would already know about her feelings on courtship. It’s not like she’s hanging out at bars alone or anything.

        • Jayhawk (@Jayhawk1991) Says:

          I saw that too–There are fake diamond rings that cost nothing but look somewhat real. Who knows! I am concerned that some of these sources may be feeding bad information to you guys to discredit you, I’m paranoid I guess. I’m sure you trust those sources, but you just never know how far Doug’s tentacles are reaching on this thing.

        • Sarah Says:

          I think it is possible that it was a fake ring tho. How would a real diamond that large ever fly under the radar. I do agree with her assessment of Beall tho. I think the fact that she knew since Feb. at the very least and still kept up the charade shows her main interest was keeping her celebrity status and and continuing to live like a millionaire. I do not believe that Beall would have made him step down as elder. She seemed pretty determined to keep up appearences from Feb. to Oct. and would still be continuing to today had others not caught wind of it.

        • Jen Says:

          Sarah, apparently, Beall has been keeping up appearances for a long time now. Sad, actually, to have to live a double life.

        • DesiringToDiscern Says:

          I, like Jayhawk, am a bit concerned that there is an effort to discredit you, Jen, and Mr. Eston, so that others may mistrust the truth. The immorality is disgusting and flat out wrong…and quite sensational, news-wise. The situations are biblically wrong on all counts regardless of the details. The power and financial dealings with a 5013c are in the millions per year. This is fact that cannot be erased …and many besides DP are accountable. Big web here. Blessings to you both.

        • Jen Says:

          Thank you, D2D. We are trying our best to present only truth. Sometimes we get conflicting reports, but I don’t think anyone really knows all the truth except for Doug himself. In his own teaching on repentance, he says that one who is truly repentant will tell the whole truth. We are still waiting for that to happen.

      • T.W. Eston Says:

        Thanks Jayhawk, but I’m not at all concerned that Womanforfreedom isn’t buying elements of my story. I’m sure there are many who don’t buy everything I’ve written, nor do I claim to be flawless. If anyone is expecting perfection from me they’ll be sadly disappointed.

        Womanforfreedom speaks with an air of authority because she’s a neighbor. She has her perspective, but it doesn’t sound as though it’s the insider’s perspective of one who’s been a guest in the Phillips’ home, a BCA member, VF employee, etc., as our sources are. Observing the Phillips home from the outside as you’re walking your dog may tell you a few things, but probably not a great deal. This isn’t to take away Womanforfreedom’s position, just to put it in the broader perspective that she isn’t an insider.

        I would have valued her contacting me to collaborate some details that a neighbor might be able to corroborate our insider sources. Instead, she has chosen to bash me and Jen. That’s unfortunate. I’m not clear on what is driving that, but if she’s reading this comment I do hope she’ll email me or comment here. It seems as though we may have a common goal, so I don’t see the point in her criticisms.

        • Teresa N Says:

          Mr Eston,

          I have been wanting to make a comment over there to ask her what her beef is concerning Jen and you.

          I did not know if it would be ok to ask her since I have been commenting here.

        • Jen Says:

          Teresa N, you are certainly free to ask but use discernment everywhere you go, including here.

        • MomT Says:

          It seems to me that Doug could have given her the fake ring with the promise of a real one later and explained how jealous he is and how he wants to protect her from ungodly young punks making unwanted moves on her. He could have given her the “save face reason” for wearing the ring and she wouldn’t technically be lying if she used it. He would seem like a caring, doting father figure to the blind followers(if they knew the ring came from him or was his idea) and it would make Cassandra feel loved, protected and special knowing that she knew the “real” reason. Just a theory – I am not an insider. Just watching from the outside and trying to piece the story together.

        • Teresa N Says:

          Jen,
          Do you know who this womanforfreedom could be by chance? just wondering…..

        • Jen Says:

          Teresa N, as far as I know, she is a VERY close neighbor.

        • Jane Says:

          This woman doesn’t like Beall one bit! Could it be that since you guys asked for prayer for Beall and see her as a victim as well, that she wants to discredit your account of things? Just a thought.

        • Jen Says:

          Jane, I think she just wants a chance to have her voice heard. Everyone needs that. And she has a different perspective. Doug does not associate with outsiders, so she has a very unique bird’s eye view of certain situations.

        • Leila Says:

          I read over on Spiritual Sounding Board. Maybe I missed something, but I don’t see that WomanforFreedom is trying to discredit you. It looks to me like she just has a different perspective.

        • Woman for freedom Says:

          Hi it’s me-insert apologetic grimace- please forgive me if I sounded like I was bashing you. That was never ever my intent . I believe I have several times mentioned how I have appreciated so much of what you have posted and to Jen, you’ve done groundbreaking work and we have quite a few mutual acquaintances . Man guys , we are on the same page here. We all want the same thing and that is for the truth to be revealed about this awful awful man. Please please forgive me if I had a haughty spirit or sounded harsh towards you. I get afraid of speculation . That’s all. I have never blogged before so I will step out and leave it to the professionals . Please know there is nothing but respect for anyone trying to get this man understood and known for who he really is . I’m much more involved than you know and now ima bit afraid so forgive me if I sounded disrespectful . I will not comment about your posts ever again. You have my word

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          Welcome Woman for Freedom. I’ve been out all afternoon and am now just seeing your comment. Your gracious apology is warmly accepted.

          Yes, I believe we likely have the same goals. My goal, and Jen’s goal, is to fully expose a wolf in sheep’s clothing that has done great harm to the body of Christ. Jen has been doing that for years. Some have listened to her, but most have just assumed she was a bitter, angry, vindictive woman. I know Jen personally, so I know that’s not the case at all. Some have a hard time believing that Jen could be forgiving of Doug (and she is), while at the same time publicly expose him. In spite of everything Doug did to ravage her family, Jen still cares about Doug and would love nothing more than to see him genuinely repent and make amends to everyone that he’s harmed. I’m skeptical that will ever happen, but we serve a great God, so I have to acknowledge with Jen that anything’s possible. Nevertheless, until that happens we will continue with the exposés so that he isn’t ever given another opportunity to harm anyone else. My personal view is that he’s more than demonstrated that he’s unfit to ever serve in any ministry capacity again. I think Doug should take up another profession altogether, like selling insurance (no insult to any insurance sales people), where he has little opportunity to get on a power trip again.

          Thanks for explaining that you’re a novice at blogging. You’re not alone. Most of the commenters here are, as well. We have no problem with your posting comments elsewhere, but please do share with us your insights here, as well. We’d value that.

          Blessings,

          T.W.

        • Woman for freedom Says:

          Thank you mr eston . Again my sincerest apologies and I pray that you and jens efforts will be fruitful in revealing this man for who he is. Thank you for allowing me to post . Peace be with you brother and thank you Jen

        • Jen Says:

          Woman for freedom, welcome! You are always welcome here. I seriously wondered about one of the first comments you made about choosing which blog to post comments on. Now it makes sense that you are new to the blogosphere. Let me assure you that it is not a competition, but rather a collaborative effort by many bloggers, and many commenters, to all see truth and justice win the day. We are all working together here. Many of my commenters also comment on the other blogs as well. That is common and encouraged. I hope you will reconsider and join our conversation as well. Either way, I want you to know that you are certainly welcome at more than one blog!

          If you don’t mind, I would like to ask you a question. I can’t find your exact comment right now, but you mentioned something about Beall contacting another church to help keep “Cassandra” quiet. I may not have that worded exactly right, but it sounds VERY strange to me. How in the world would another church be involved in something like that? Are you able to share any more information about that?

  45. Friend of God Says:

    Hearing all these stories makes me realize how unbelievably I am blessed. I was raised by a good looking, great personality, strong leader man that pastored a fairly large church. He taught all five of his daughters that we were strong and powerful leaders! Yes! A strong man is not one bit afraid of a strong woman.

    He also taught us not to worship men, but that we were supposed to worship God and him only. Whenever, women or men of our congregation would lapse over into hero worship, he would remind them that he was only a man trying to serve a great God the best way he knew how. Humans have a tendency to worship and idealize other humans that is why Hollywood is so popular. Hence the paparazzi etc. DP was catering to a group of people who wanted a hero to idolize. A “Christian” version of a rock star. Dad told me that that tendency of others to worship you, could be intoxicating that is why he always tried to remind others that he was nothing without God. My Dad was always faithful to my mother and my family. Why? Because he was a sincere worshiper of God. He wasn’t a narcissistic self worshiper.

    I homeschool and two of my sons are in college on full scholarships. The other children are doing great academically as well in their high school courses. Home schools run the gamut. The important thing to remember is God is the one who belongs on the throne. Men who appear like perfection personified are simply actors. Their real selves are as corrupt and crippled as anyone else. My Dad would actually point out men like that and warn us about them. My sisters and I still carefully scrutinize anyone who attempts to lifts himself up higher than he should be. Let God be lifted up and let us all realize our very humanity is not very pretty no matter how you try to glamorize or idealize it. Living for God is being down to earth and honest with yourself and others all the while striving to please God and not man.

    I admit DP looked and sounded amazing to an outsider looking in at his world. But his behavior has made a mockery of all the values that he claimed to uphold. These kind of people are so skilled and talented and all that could have been used for great good. At the end of the day, if he had lived with integrity, he could have done much to benefit our current society. As it is, he catered to his own flesh and threw away everything of any true value in his life.

    I hope he is in great soul searching right now. I do hope he will admit to his own wife and family that he is just a “low down, dirty sinner, and his righteousness is but filthy rags”. He needs to humble himself greatly in the sight of God. He is not any more special than you or I. God is his judge. I will pray for him and his family. My heart hurts for all that were injured by his duplicitous behavior. He needs to live a quiet life with his family and spend the rest of his life in truthful humble repentance. I am thankful that I was protected by a real man of God from such wolves in sheep’s clothing. Sad, Sad, Sad story.

    • Jen Says:

      Friend of God, it sounds like you have a very healthy background!

      I am sure that Doug has admitted to being a horrific sinner (he always claimed that), but I am far more concerned about his future actions than his words.

  46. T.W. Eston Says:

    On Doug Phillips and his “sin”

    Just a quick note on the matter of Doug Phillips and his admitted indiscretions: He should take this other unmarried woman as his wife as well.

    Yes, it really is that simple. Scripture allows for it, it’s only modern, secular, Christ-hating culture today that doesn’t allow for such a handy solution.

    Let us not forget that adultery in Scripture is defined by the marital status of the female.

  47. Friend of God Says:

    That is so nasty.

  48. Distressed Says:

    I’ve been keeping up with the blog entries and reading almost every reply.
    The spiritual and emotional abuse in reformed communities of wives, children and parishioners is widespread. I’ve been a victim of such abuse in reformed baptist and Presbyterian contexts. 3/4 of our massive PURITAN library was given to us by a man who was undermining my marriage, even encouraging my husband to divorce me, all the while stealing money from my husband thru the business partnership they shared. Im just thankful this thing is being blown wide open and pray Beall’s mother’s heart will move quickly to get her children and herself away from this man and in time she will see how deceived and warped her own thinking had become. I pray for “Cassandra” to be detoxed and far removed from texas and all the places that will remind her of the last decade plus of her life where she can began to rebuild the foundation of her life on Jesus Christ and find wholeness in Him.
    This is all so heartbreaking and shameful!

    • Jen Says:

      Distressed, while I share your concerns, I do not see any of your wishes coming true, sadly.

    • Angela Wittman Says:

      Distressed might just be on to something about abuse being widespread in reformed communities… I saw it happening in a local PCA church; for example wives in troubled marriages were disciplined and not allowed communion when they hadn’t done anything terribly wrong. The marriages eventually fell apart and the husbands remained at church while the wives were forced out. It was so humiliating to see the wives denied communion… Needless to say, I shook the dust off my feet to the church asap.

      • Jen Says:

        Angela, I don’t think guilt by association is ever the answer. While I am sorry to hear about those women and their marriages, it is not a Reformed position.

        • Donna Says:

          No, this is definitely NOT a Reformed position. The original Reformers of the 16th thru 18th centuries would’ve never advocated what DP and his kind are doing. EVER. (I hate seeing the Puritans put in this camp, because you ahve to remember the kind of persecution they were under in England, and thus, the reasons they came over here… along with many others who were NOT Puritans. DP just likes to *use* the Puritans to validate his own ideas.) And I personally have seen this kind of stuff happen in many NON-Reformed churches, too. In fact, Bill Gothard is *definitely* not Reformed, and yet…. he’s had some pretty legalistic, sick, spiritually abusive teachings going on for many years, as well, and he has quite a large following of his own from some NON-Reformed groups.

          In fact, the whole idea of Dominion Theology is specific to certain “camps” of Reformed churches and denominations (Rushdoony, Phillips, Wilson, Botkin, Sproul the Son (Jr.), et al). However, I think Gothard carries a certain level of the Dominionist ideas, too.

          No, guilt by association here is way off. That would be like saying our friends whose small, Calvinistic church happens to not have any Sunday School classes right now MUST be just like DP. That would be a very untrue statement!

        • oneh20 Says:

          RIght, Donna. I have an enormously large group of friends in reformed churches and some actually speak out AGAINST FICs, in fact. There are even some who are opposed to claiming that homeschooling is the biblical standard. That said, there are a huge amount of homeschoolers in these churches locally, but some are absolutely fine to do it through K-12. Some keep their kids out of Sunday School, most don’t. DP/VF in no way represents standard (non-hyper) Calvinism.

          I DO remember being at a YWAM (Youth w/a Mission – which has its share of controversy) conference with work I used to do in Texas and our staff sat with an elderly man who was laying out what I now know is dominion theology. At the time it just seemed ridiculous to me and I let a lot of it go in one ear and out the other and maintained a polite composure. I so wish I could remember who that was.

        • Angela Wittman Says:

          I agree… I just think it might attract domineering men and if not held in check, they can do much harm in the local churches. Either that or there is something in the water here in Waterloo, IL. 🙂

  49. Kay Says:

    Thanks Jackie, for your thoughts. But I do disagree. Inheritance between multiple wives could easily be divided in the same way an inheritance is divided among several children. In addition, if the husband wanted to give more to one wife over the others, putting all assets into trust would easily accomplish this. A simple law being passed that required husbands of multiple wives to move all assets into a trust could be one way to work around any community property laws. If I could so easily think of these “work arounds” those in power could just as easilyc come up with easy inheritance “work arounds”

  50. Tinuviel Says:

    Not sure where to post this but I thought your readers might be interested in knowing that Philip Telfer at MediaTalk 101 has begun a new Christian Film Festival. I know many who were hoping to enter films in the SAICFF and are disappointed that it has been cancelled so thought they might like to know about this new competition. http://www.christianworldviewfilmfestival.com/

  51. where are the authorities?? Says:

    why on earth aren’t the authorities involved!!!! I simply cannot imagine that Beall did not know of this after so many years – there is absolutely no way. Is anyone helping this “cassandra” and her family??? They have been brainwashed for so long, they must feel they cannot speak out and get help. I feel so bad for her parents and also for her. Where are the police??

    • Jen Says:

      Oh, I think she knew more than she let on!

      What do you think the police will do with a man who is almost 50 and a woman who is around 30?

      • where are the authorities?? Says:

        Good point… probably not much I guess 😦 I just hope justice is served!!!! If she knew, she is also guilty too

    • Donna Says:

      How do you know the authorities *aren’t* involved?

    • Half truths abound Says:

      Yes, her friends are helping her out.

    • D.L F Says:

      Certain crimes don’t have a statute of limitations. If Doug started an affair with the young woman when she was 17, they can still investigate. TW and Jen have taken the time to gather a lot of information; maybe the authorities could use some of it to make a case against Doug.

      • DesiringToDiscern Says:

        JPGR,
        I laughed at this, I paused, I choked, I felt sadness. Seriously !!!! He still has the NERVE to offer this for sale!!!

        • JPGR Says:

          Exactly!

          I have a dare. See how much of the video you can stomach.

          I got a minute into it. When he started talking about where to place the TV set, I couldn’t take any more. So here they are, wanting to lord over every minute detail of family life…and proclaiming to be the saviors of those who seek to “systematically annihilate the Christian family”.

          Meanwhile, what are they doing? Well, in fact, they are “systematically annihilating a Christian family”.

          It really makes you want to puke. The extremity of their vision for the Christian life is matched only by the extremity of their adulterous sin. It boggles the mind.

      • Refugee Says:

        I just realized… Lady Catherine (from Pride and Prejudice) reminds me a lot of Doug Phillips! (sorry, couldn’t resist. But when I read the part about “where to place the tv set” in a comment, I heard Jennifer Ehle’s voice in the back of my head, saying, “Shelves. In a closet…”)

        I recall talking to someone who went to a recent VF mega conference where there was a session on the home. I don’t recall the title anymore, but I was curious about the content. The feedback she gave me was that the session seemed aimed at people with higher incomes than we (myself and the person who went to the conference) live with, and that there was little information offered that would be practical for a typical working family. (It is a challenge to make ends meet on a single income unless the dh has some kind of high-powered way to bring in money, as in doctor, lawyer, engineer, or gifted entrepreneur, which not everyone is gifted to be.)

        • Donna Says:

          Who is Jennifer Ehle, and what does “Shelves. In a closet…” mean?

          I hear you on the income level. There is a LOT we would do differently with our furniture and arrangement if we had that kind of money… and space, which usually requires a larger mortgage payment and higher taxes. :p

        • Mrs. W Says:

          http://austenauthors.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Lady-Catherine-photo.jpg I was picturing this one but with dp’s face and something about recommendations on where to put your tv 😉

        • Refugee Says:

          Jennifer Ehle (I think I spelled her name right) played Elizabeth Bennet in the 6-hour video of Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth’s best friend marries a clergyman whose patroness is Lady Catherine de Bourgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Catherine_de_Bourgh_%28character%29). She is shown in scenes in the video as having an opinion on everything, and pressing that opinion on everyone else.

          When welcoming Elizabeth for a visit, Mr. Collins (the clergyman) tells her how Lady Catherine had the house completely redone for them, and her attention to detail even extended to putting shelves in the closet (he opens the closet door to show off the shelves) in the guest room. Elizabeth responds, “Shelves in a closet. Happy thought, indeed,” though from her tone it appears that she thinks shelves in a closet are actually an inconvenience.

          In a later scene, Lady Catherine is haranguing Elizabeth’s friend about which butcher to go to, and what cut of meat to buy, and saying something like she’ll be extremely displeased to hear if Elizabeth’s friend went elsewhere for her meat, and Elizabeth’s friend solemnly assures the Lady that she won’t.

          Near the end of the visit, Elizabeth finds her young friend repacking her suitcase, “because Lady Catherine was so particular about” the exact way to pack clothes, and Elizabeth says something to the effect that the friend can pack her clothes any way she likes and “Lady Catherine will never know.” The young friend doesn’t seem entirely convinced, however.

        • JPGR Says:

          Lady Catherine is ultimately far more benign than Phillips. Because he cloaks his in righteousness and says it is all part and parcel with living “Biblically”.

          Meanwhile, the things that the Bible actually teaches, well, he’s not as observant on those….I guess those things are for the little people to observe. Great Men have latitude I suppose.

        • DaMom Says:

          Mrs. W…that movie is a family favorite and we’ve learned many good sayings to use over the years from it, too.
          My absolute favorite is where Elizabeth assured Maria, “This is your trunk, these are your gowns, you may arrange them in any way you wish. Lady Catherine will never know.”

        • Jackie C. Says:

          Refugee, I checked out the selling clip on that video. Looking at the list of topics, I thought some of it could be interesting – I know it seems weird to talk about the TV but we had it placed so it wasn’t prominent and it actually helped. We homeschooled for work and family reasons and limited TV so the kids went outside to play – they had many acres to enjoy. However, the intro piece was strange. A sensitive subject is taking your 8 kids to the airport? That’s like bragging. How many people buying his video can actually afford to fly 8 kids? Of I had even been tempted, that alone would have pushed me away. Know your customers and cater to their needs.

          I also saw a video clip of a bunch of historical figures – something about heroes and villains. It is so easy to see how people get pulled in. I just wanted my kids to be teens again so they could be so adorable and I could wear a hoopskirt, though I’m sure Phillips and I would disagree on who the villians were.

        • JPGR Says:

          Incidentally, I think it’s time for the next article

    • D.L F Says:

      Jen, could you write an article about the more extremist beliefs of BCA? The affair is salacious but I am more concerned with some of the beliefs of this group. For instance, could you cover their views on stoning, slavery and women voting. Also,, aren’t they Dominionists who believe that they will eventually take over the United States? I’ve read that they would outlaw any other religious group but their own. Is that true? From an outsiders point of view, there seems to be a lot of extreme chest beating among their men that is odd. For instance, Doug described the trip to the Amazon as a sweaty, manly romp. It sounds as if BCA males were very insecure about their own masculinity. It is pretty obvious how this group’s thinking hurts women but did the men feel pressured to fit a certain gender mold also? Is the Hazardous Journey group still active?

      • JPGR Says:

        Sadly I think the Hazardous Journey has gone under. It is a great idea. Perhaps someone can execute it with a little grace, a little financial integrity and a little less faux manhood. It really is a cool concept if the right people could pull it off.

        • Jen Says:

          JPGR, but how will they manage to go on all those expensive expeditions without all the millions of dollars being donated to Vision Forum? From my understanding, some private HJS expeditions are still happening.

      • Jen Says:

        DLF, after the dust settles a bit, I plan on writing a whole series of articles regarding patriarchy and everything encompassed in what Doug Phillips taught. It is time that we re-examine those together.

        However, to answer some of your questions here, while Doug did address stoning in his message, I don’t think he every literally stoned anyone! Not to my knowledge anyway. Verbally, yes. But I do know that stoning was a discussion brought up by the men once in a while in various FIC churches or VF events.

        Slavery was never discussed as a separate subject while I was there, but Doug did “hail” Dabney, who was a huge proponent of slavery. Doug did not state that he was ever in disagreement with Dabney on any issue that I am aware of.

        It is Doug’s position that it is a sin for women to vote.

        Yes, Doug is a Dominionist, and we will be covering this issue in much greater detail.

        Doug is a drama king, so whether he acts out of insecurity or not, I don’t know, but you can chalk up much of it to “drama.’

        Yes, men were encouraged to do things that ONLY men could do, which often left the women feeling left out or “beneath” the men.

        From my understanding, although Vision Forum is no longer accepting donations for HJS, they have continued going on expeditions since Doug’s resignation, and since VF closed down. I don’t not understand that. Perhaps Scott Brown can speak to that for us. Scott?

        • oneh20 Says:

          Hey Jen, Have you read “Quiverfull -Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement” by Kathryn Joyce or “No Longer Quivering”? I skimmed to first as I was not as surrounded by it back them and the second I read when I was dealing with some legalism in my former church.

        • Jen Says:

          Oneh20, even though “Quiverfull” is partly about me, I was very disappointed in it for two reasons. First, she got so many facts and details about my story wrong that I have to question all the other stories she tells as well. Second, she connects dots that have no business being connected, in my book. She uses the “guilt by association” logical fallacy to an extreme and so it actually ended up weakening her point, from what I could tell. I did not finish reading the book because I was really turned off by it. Good intentions, but she just doesn’t “get” it.

          I have not read “No Longer Quivering.” What’s your take on it?

        • oneh20 Says:

          Jen! I had no idea that that was partly about your story. Well, that’s a disappointment, but as far as the other book, I didn’t relate too much as I was not a QF/P daughter, but what I did glean was the beautiful grace of God displayed in response to the pain these young ladies had experienced.

        • Jen Says:

          oneh20, I am very glad to hear that the contrast was legalism vs. grace. That is a good report indeed!

        • oneh20 Says:

          Yes – not sure if I made it clear that these girls had come out of QF/P, but they did and when I first read it I didn’t have the context to apply to it that I do now. I think you would like it.

        • Jackie C. Says:

          Jen and Oneh20,
          I’m updating the church library and was looking at both those books to add to it. I thought a recent article I read by Joyce had some faulty logic in it so I was hesitating. So “Quiverfull” maybe not so great?

        • oneh20 Says:

          Hi Jackie, From what Jen said, I would skip “Quiverfull” and consider the other, “No Longer Quivering.” I would also add “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.” Its fantastic.

        • Jen Says:

          Jackie, my story is in that book, yet I don’t recommend it to anyone. However, you are certainly free to read it for yourself and see. Some people liked it.

        • Jackie C. Says:

          Great idea, oneh20. And let’s hope I need multiple copies. Love these people dearly but complete innocents in some ways.

        • oneh20 Says:

          Let the healing begin! PTL! 🙂

        • Jackie C. Says:

          What I’m hoping for is they’ll expand their understanding of some family members who are part of a Quiverfull church. We had an incident of clergy sexual abuse in our church but it was 25 years ago (before my time here) and most don’t want to acknowledge it. Otherwise though we’re fortunate to be part of a denomination with accountability and trainings for ministers and other leaders.

        • Shawn Mathis Says:

          Jen: Joyce got many facts wrong about you? Where they a bunch of little things that added up to sloppiness or where they big items? mixed? I’d like to know since I may write that up at examiner.com. If she is that sloppy, then people ought to know. It’s too bad since spiritual and physical abuse is a real problem in h/s circles.

          thanks,

        • Jen Says:

          Shawn, I have not read her book since 2007, so I do not recall specifically. It seemed to me to be nearly 200 details that she got wrong. Considering that we spoke several times, I was very disappointed indeed. I don’t know if I would chalk it up to sloppiness, because she was very thorough, but looking back, I should have asked for the right to read that chapter and make any necessary corrections before going to print. Also, I was very disappointed that she betrayed the one confidence I asked of her and she printed one story, with names, that I had specifically asked her not to. It was enough to make me question all the other stories in the book as well.

          Yes, she had an awesome opportunity to make a huge difference in 2007, but I think many readers also saw the false “guilt by association” logical fallacy she employed as the foundation of her book, and so lost credibility in making her point.

        • Jen Says:

          Also, because we are SO concerned with the accuracy of every tiny detail presented here, I guess I had expected that same level of concern for accuracy from her as well.

        • Refugee Says:

          I was unable to find a book called “No Longer Quivering.” I have been reading a blog by that title. Is the book mentioned perhaps “Quivering Daughters”? I just bought the e-book recently and downloaded it to my e-reader.

        • Shawn Mathis Says:

          Jen: Oh, i see, I was thinking of her recent essay, Homeschool Apostates. I did not know you were referring to her book. Still a relevant fact to know. But her essay struck me enough to respond to it (here) and then a follow essay up on my own experience living in the atmosphere of legalism. I wonder how much of Doug’s life and church reflected such an atmosphere of fear and anxiety, whether intentional or not.

        • Jen Says:

          I keep hearing about her essay. I shall go look and see.

  52. Keith Blankenship Says:

    Could someone provide Beall Phillips surname before she married? I take it she is from Virginia?

    • Tinuviel Says:

      I don’t know her maiden name, but she is not from Virginia. She is from Texas and was married in Texas.

    • Janie Says:

      I thought her full name was Elizabeth Beall Phillips, with Beall being her maiden name. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

    • noturniptruck Says:

      intellius says it’s Elizabeth Beall Dewey Phillips

      • Jen Says:

        Dewey as in the Dewey decimal system? As in the evil Dewey decimal system, according to Doug?

        • cptruthlover Says:

          LOL! He even has an opinion on the Dewey decimal system?

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          You know reading some of these posts regarding DP’s opinions just make me wonder for a second if people are not making this stuff up. However, I know in my right mind “You can’t make this crazy up”.

          So someone please explain to me how the Dewey Decimal system is evil. I am going to write the explanation in my brain forever. If I decide to act crazy I can always pull that one out.

        • cptruthlover Says:

          Morgan, Jen realized it was John Dewey, not M. Dewey that DP hated. But, I decided it was funny, because I could totally see DP having an unexplainable belief like that! Sorry for the confusuon.

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          Sigh of relief. Now I can sleep better knowing that the Dewey Decimal System is not evil. But darn the thought sure was funny as all get out.

        • Jen Says:

          Morgan, my daughter and I both remember him talking about the Dewey decimal system, but it sure makes more sense that he was talking about public school instead. ‘Tis a mystery!

        • Jen Says:

          Morgan, you know you are only saying those things because you are a Jezebel. 😉 Godly women in Doug’s world do not work outside the home, do not work with men, do not have men working FOR them, are always quiet and submissive, always obey whatever men tell them to do, and spend all their time being a good housewife wearing long dresses. The day I see you doing any of those things will be the day I KNOW you have truly lost your mind!

          Keep being the wonderful Morgan I know you to be, the woman God created you to be, and not someone others want you to be. I love that woman!

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          Jen, Thanks for the kind words. But on a lighter note can you picture ME in a DP Church? The laughs would never stop…it would be material for the ages.

          YOU must never change as well. I fell for your spirit and courage ages before we even met! Keep up the good fight.

        • Jen Says:

          Morgan, actually, I would probably pay to see you in BCA just for ONE day! Oh, the shock of it all would be worth the price of admission!

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          Better idea: we go together!

        • Eva Says:

          DP is probably thinking of John Dewey of public education notoriety. The decimal system was earlier but maybe they are related.

        • cptruthlover Says:

          What a relief! I was thinking I couldnt step foot in the library for fear of exposure to evil numbers!

        • Jen Says:

          CP, ROFLOL!!!

        • cptruthlover Says:

          Out of curiosity I looked Dewey up and I found the reason DP clearly thought he was evil when I read that:

          “Dewey’s “old nemesis—a persistent inability to control himself around women” was an ongoing cause of trouble on the job. [7]”
          –Wikipedia

        • Jen Says:

          CP, we need you on our research team! Fabulous!

        • cptruthlover Says:

          Ha! I’ll behave now. Things were getting a little heavy today so I thought I’d provide a little comic relief!

        • Jen Says:

          Eva, yes, that is probably more like it! I got my Deweys mixed up!

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          @Morgan Farmer: “If I decide to act crazy I can always pull that one out.”

          When Jen recalls another story to share with me of her time at BCA, and the numerous things she’s heard from others since then, my most typical response is: “WHAT?!!!” That’s got to be one of the most insane things I’ve ever heard!” Jen is usually kind enough to first warn me by asking two thing: “Are you sitting down? Are you drinking anything right now?” The latter is because she’s made me choke on my coffee when she tells me another Doug Phillips tale.

          I keep encouraging Jen to write a book. The stories she’s told me are utterly unbelievable, and I say that in the sense that too many times I have to tell her, “Stop Jen. My brain just can’t process this. Give my brain a few minutes to catch up with what you’re saying.”

          Yes, Morgan, it is utterly crazy.

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          It would be a best seller!

  53. where are the authorities?? Says:

    another thing I always thought very strange, before this scandal, is why did they only have 8 children? For not using bc it would seem you would have many more children than 8?

    • Grace alone Says:

      Didn’t her last pregnancy end in a stillbirth? I vaguely remember something of that sort.

      • where are the authorities?? Says:

        This is heartbreaking if true. I wish no malace towards her, I just have always wondered. Most quiverfull families have over 10 children

        • Jen Says:

          Their goal was a dozen children. They often made that clear. But I do think they were grateful for the children God gave them.

        • Corrine Says:

          I actually know many QF families who have relatively small families 4,5,6. Not everyone is awazingly fertile 🙂

        • Corrine Says:

          For instance , Nancy Campbell & her daughter have 5 & 6 respectively .

      • Molly Says:

        I believe I remember reading one of his blog posts where he said they had experienced more than one miscarriage.

    • Donna Says:

      Not everyone who *doesn’t* use birth control is ABLE to have all the babies they want. Miscarriages, long periods of infertility perhaps due to full-time breastfeeding, the husband’s frequent absences (Doug does/did travel a lot, yes?), exhaustion, temporary periods of separation by agreement, illness…. there could be any number of reasons Beall didn’t give birth every year they were married. Besides, didn’t they marry well into their 20’s? That would cut into her childbearing season of life quite a bit.

      I myself have had 8 confirmed pregnancies, and I suspect a handful of unconfirmed (very early miscarriages). I’ve only been able to give birth to 3 living children. We didn’t even *start* trying to have children until I was over 30 years old.

      “Quiverfull” is a mindset, a desire, a philosophy…. it doesn’t automatically mean that someone DOES have 10 or more children.

      • where are the authorities?? Says:

        agreed! But for someone that preached this messages so hard, still makes me wonder

        • Donna Says:

          Why would you wonder about this? It’s a scientific FACT that not everyone is ABLE to have as many babies as they’d like to have…. for lots of reasons, as I and others have already explained. Eight children is already over and above the “norm” in this country, so why “must” they have 10 or 12 in order to “prove” that they’re of a quiverfull mindset? Especially when they didn’t start as young as Michelle Duggar did!

          Ideally, being “quiverfull” means that you’re not taking control of your family size…. it’s up to God. IOW, you’re not doing anything from a *human* perspective to control it one way or the other. And **with that mindset in place**, then if it God’s will for you to have a dozen children, you won’t. Plain and simple.

          I just don’t think there’s anything to wonder about here with the Phillips “only” having 8 children, given the uniqueness of each family and their particular dynamics (schedules, etc.), and the intricacies of a woman’s body. ::shrugs shoulders::

        • Donna Says:

          Oops, meant to say if it ISN’T God’s will….

    • Kay Says:

      Just because someone doesn’t use birth control doesn’t mean they will automatically get pregnant. Our last child was born in 2000. No birth control since, no pregnancies either. There are some of us out here that truly desired to just let God determine our family size that has absolutely NOTHING to do with trying to take over the United States or any other perversion that DP and his ilk took it to. For us, our allowing God to determine family size had to do with we would call Him Lord in every area of our life, except when it came to the bedroom…there we slammed the door in His face and said, ‘nope, we can handle this for ourselves.’ We NEVER have pushed this on anyone else, not even our children, and believe that each couple has to make the decision about family size for themselves. In it’s more pure form, and back at the beginning of it all in the mid 80’s, the “quiver-full movement”, as it has come to be known now-a-days, wasn’t about “taking back (over) the country by birthing as many babies as we could.” It was, in it’s purity and infancy, a honest attempt to simply allow God to be Lord over every area of our lives. I personally know many couples who never used birth control and never had more than 3 or 4 kids….one couple only had 2.

      Now, please, don’t jump all over me just because I have stated these facts….I was there at the beginning of this “movement” and I know many of the people involved (though I don’t know Doug or anyone in San Antonio). DP and VF perverted what was something truly pure by using it to lessen women, destroy individual priesthood, and control his congregation.

      • Jen Says:

        Kay, I think that is a perfect example of how Doug perverted many things that began for the right reasons.

      • MM Says:

        My own parents never used birth control and only had two children. Another aunt and uncle never used birth control and had only 4. I know a lot of people who have never used birth control and had similar results. Thank you for responding to the comments above. As someone who has suffered 4 losses in the last year and a half I just found it so frustrating when people make assumptions about the fertility of others. I’m sure we look like we’ve been contracepting for a while now but that’s simply not the case.

    • Mom2Eight Says:

      My husband and I have been married for over 24 years, and were married when I was 18. We decided before we were married that we were going to leave family planning up to the Lord (had never heard of “quiverfull”), and hoped to have a dozen children. We have 8. I am now 43, and our youngest is almost 4 1/2, in spite of the fact that we would be delighted with more. I have had at least 3 miscarriages, but none since the last baby was born, to my knowledge. Quiverfull definitely does not mean that you have a baby every year.

  54. Tinuviel Says:

    There’s been a lot of speculation about whether or not Beall knew what was going on. I have absolutely no idea, but I am thinking it may be possible that if she ever brought it up to Doug (and for that matter, if anyone ever brought it up to Doug), he was able to calm their fears by saying that “Cassandra” was like a daughter to him. He is very affectionate with his daughters (in a good way from what I can tell in videos and photos) and he probably just kept telling people that Cassandra was like family and that any hand holding or hugging or whatever was simply an expression of his love for her as another daughter. I can see that being accepted by folks up to a point and then, sometime in January (?) he must’ve done something that went beyond being able to use that as an excuse. Someone must have caught them doing something beyond what folks think of as father/daughter affection. Just a guess. I’m not an insider.

    • Jen Says:

      Tinuviel, that is a very good possibility.

      • bookworm Says:

        I don’t understand. The article by T.W. above says this, “In January 2013 Doug was literally caught with his pants down, in his home, by one or more Phillips family members. To the best of our knowledge it was Beall and or Josh who caught them.

        Prior to this point the relationship had been an open secret. As long as Doug kept it in the closet no one at BCA or Vision Forum would hold him accountable. But for Doug to openly flaunt his adultery put everything in jeopardy, including many people’s jobs. Something had to be done. Doug was finally confronted in an ’emergency BCA meeting’ in February where he allegedly confessed and repented and stepped down as Elder of BCA. Doug promised the relationship would end. It didn’t. It just went back into the closet.”

        So was this incident factual, or is this description conjectural on T.W.’s part, the part where he states they were caught being inappropriate?

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          What I stated in the article is: “In January 2013 Doug was literally caught with his pants down, in his home, by one or more Phillips family members. To the best of our knowledge it was Beall and or Josh who caught them.”

          When we say, “caught with his pants down” we often mean it in a general sense that may not even have a sexual connotation. However, I meant this in the most literal sense (which is why I used the word “literally”). Please don’t ask me to get any more specific in details than that (this is a G-rated blog).

        • bookworm Says:

          Thank you, TW (below) for the clarification. I wasn’t trying to get specific, but Jen’s response, “that is a very good possiblilty” to Tinuviel’s comments (“Someone must have caught them doing something beyond what folks think of as father/daughter affection. Just a guess. “) made me wonder if you were being literal or figurative. I would think Jen would also know which it was, so her response to Tinuviel confused me, as if she didn’t know the entire facts. Maybe she was referring to another part of Tinuviel’s post.

    • watchfuleyes Says:

      I think you might be onto something Tinuviel……you are very intuitive.

    • Sarah Pressler Says:

      These men are pathological liars. They live in two worlds. It’s a complete double life. They are narcissistic, manipulative and controlling. I’m sure Beall, now, is thinking, “oh…. so…that’s what was really going on…” Been there done that! She’ll spend the next 10 yrs juggling her family memories and deconstructing the lies that Doug has perpetrated against her and the children.

      She’s female. She has instinct. She suppressed it.

      My prayer is that she never – ever – does that again.

      • Justwondering Says:

        Beall is smart and loves her kids. May she act accordingly amd may God give her quiet courage and determined resolve to distance herself from this pitiful excuse of a man. Period. Not to mention a professing Christian man, not to mention a teacher of the word of God. His sins against her and those precious children and all the people whose trust he has so violated is beyond sickening. I’m throwing every VF cd or book I have in the garbage.

        • Joyelle Says:

          Justwondering, Wait! If you’re willing to send them to me, I Will put your VF trash to good use. I am doing a research and writing project, and need more VF resources. Would be very grateful for any donations. If interested, or to find out more about my project, please contact me through Jen’s email. Thanks!

        • Just wondering Says:

          I will donate them to a good cause.

      • Jen Says:

        Sarah, I guess you would be the perfect one to know why it is important to never fall for the same line twice. As Beall begins to relive those memories now, all through a new filter hopefully, a new picture will gradually emerge. As it does, I pray that she does act upon it. She can’t see it yet, perhaps, but it will grow on her.

  55. where are the authorities?? Says:

    new topic but I have been thinking about this all day long: Is anyone concerend that dp might liteally go for broke and do something violent? He has lost almost everything, end of the year, mounting pressure etc. What’s not to say he looses it and takes people out with him? You take a castle from a man of this sort with these personality disorders, no telling what he may do. This is my thoughts only, I have no evidence to say it could happen, just talking out loud… Thoughts??? I wouldn’t want to be working at VF right now!

    • Jen Says:

      WATA, (your name is too long!), I certainly hope not. I have seen no indication of that, but I can also give no guarantees.

      • where are the authorities?? Says:

        sorry about the name, all the other good ones were taken 🙂 Glad to see you do not think so as you would know more than I. I am a complete outsider but have followed VF a while with hs resources etc.

  56. Leslie Says:

    This whole thing is so sad and hits so close to home. Our daughter and SOL decided on the Quiverfull,homeschooling life 20 years ago. The deeper they get, the further they distance themselves from us. They now have 8 children ages 21-5. They moved about 800 miles away in 2002. Every time we go visit the skirts are longer, the rules stricter. It looks like courtship is the next thing on the agenda for the 21 year old. I feel terrible that we actually took our kids to the Bill Gothard Seminars in the 80’s and 90’s. I emailed her last week about the DP fiasco. Have not heard from her since. I have a feeling there is a big train wreck ahead

    • Jen Says:

      Leslie, I can understand the ever-tightening rules. It was a whole part of the lifestyle. I hope and pray that you will be able to reach to them in love as you share truth with them. I am hoping that many people will use this time to reevaluate God’s truths instead of man’s rules.

    • oneh20 Says:

      Leslie,

      That breaks my heart for you. I “lost” a cousin in this way. Even though her husband seems to be coming around – she is not and its broken a few hearts – especially her mother’s. The last time I saw my aunt, she pulled out a picture of the young woman we all knew who was so cheerful and energetic and so forth. She said that is how she chooses to remember her – but that woman is long gone. Its truly haunting.

  57. T.W. Eston Says:

    Please note the amendment I made to the article:

    *Author’s Note: I had previously stated this occurred in 2013. After checking again with my sources I realized that my chronology was inaccurate. The circumstances remain unchanged, but the chronology of events was out of order. I apologize for any confusion. If anything this creates an even more problematic situation. What this means is that key Vision Forum people had first hand knowledge that the “inappropriate relationship” had been going on for even far longer than we even realized and, apparently, little or nothing was done to confront it.

    • Bridget Says:

      TW –

      I’m confused by your note. What does it refer to in the original article?

    • Sarah Says:

      I get what your saying. They were holding hands at the film festival in 2012 not 2013 right?

    • Jen Says:

      TW, this makes so much more sense now. I have heard that even more people saw it now, but everyone just said “the film festival,” so we assumed it was this year. This date does complicate matters, however, since it makes it obvious that many people have known for nearly two years now. I guess it wasn’t much of a secret, was it?

  58. Truehart Says:

    Polygamy has never been appealing to me. Besides, Jesus said: “No man can serve TWO masters” (Matt. 6:24). Sorry, a little “comic relief” never hurts 😉

  59. Anne Says:

    I commented awhile back and have been thinking more on all these events. Does anyone have an opinion/comment about all of these issues of abuse, etc. (though TRULY VALID and NECESSARY to be brought out in the open) being somewhat of a red herring in regard to crimes in the financial realm? @Jen—please don’t misunderstand this question to AT ALL minimize or detract from what is VERY important here (DP’s horrific behaviors with Cassandra, etc.). But, as they say, is there reason to believe such things are just the tip of the iceberg?

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      There is every reason to believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Doug Phillips has harmed, abused and defrauded dozens of people. There are so many stories that could be told. Jen and I personally know of quite a few ourselves, and there are many more from people who are unwilling to come forward and tell their own stories, at least at this time. For various reasons, many people are still too afraid to step forward and speak up. In time that fear will diminish.

      • Idontgetit Says:

        I get why you remain semi anonymous, some of these groups can be rather dangerous, not saying this particular group is. I find ti sad that people are afraid of the faith community they call a family. I find that extremely sad. Church should and in my experience can be, a wonderful community. Even in many conservative Christian communities I have seen great compassion shown to others. It just seems when doctrine or belief is challenged or authority is challenged the other side of the coin drops. Of course that is not just at churches or community of faiths, but because it deals with such a central part of what it is to be human I E religion, it can make the pain magnified and the abuse that much more horrid.

        • oneh20 Says:

          That’s so right on. I was once in the public eye to a degree for a controversial issue I fought hard for and I dealt with internet attacks, personal attacks, etc., – that was just part of it – but there is NOTHING (for me) like being afraid of or hurt by the people in your church. Its so hard to get your bearings back after that. Been there.

    • Jen Says:

      Anne, yes, there are definitely some financial issues and I am trying to work on that article, but I will be working some long hours so I will try to get that done as I can. There are tons of stories, many of which will never be told, but we hope to present enough here to give people an idea of who the real Doug Phillips truly is.

      • Idontgetit Says:

        Jen if you know of any abuse issues or actionable items I hope you report them to the appropriate authorities. Have a nice evening.

      • Anne Says:

        Thanks, Jen. You (I’m presuming here) and I both personally now know husbands that are now out of a job, with the likely possibility of moving there families, etc… because of the closing of VFM and VFI. I am sick to my stomach (literally and emotionally speaking) when I contemplate the nuclear bomb of harm that has resulted from DP’s actions. It is so surreal, almost unbelieveable.

        God says that we will indeed reap what we sow. Beall, his children and Cassandra were/are at “ground zero”, but the devastation of this “bomb” is horrific and widespread. Oh, that God in His mercy and justice would bring the truth fully to light AND that as a result true HEALING will be found in abundance…..and that even includes DP.

        • Anne Says:

          Must. Correct. : “their families”. 🙂

        • Jen Says:

          Anne, I think my heart goes out most to certain VF employees who truly thought they were doing the Lord’s work, and have been indoctrinated so heavily into believing that men should not work with women other than their wives/daughters, or that they should own their own businesses. I some of these men were given little to no notice of losing their jobs, and others have no prospects in sight. The selfish actions of Doug Phillips have FAR-reaching impacts indeed.

          There are thousands of people who are impacted financially by this in other respects as well. All the homeschool conferences, the businesses and vendors who worked with VF, the travel industry (who will lose millions in lost revenue from all these fantastic events!), and many, many more.

          Then there are the emotional impacts. The spiritual impacts. The relationship impacts. The cognitive dissonance. And finally, there are those who still worship the ground Doug Phillips walks on. How will life go on without their beloved idol?

          This is almost like a war-zone, all generated by the selfishness of one man.

  60. Cam Says:

    Is this a hypothetical scenario based upon your experiences in that church, or do you really know who the woman is?

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      Nothing in this story is hypothetical.

    • Teresa N Says:

      I am on the outside and even I know who she is….not hard to figure it out based on the evidence.

      My mind keeps going over the same questions or thoughts. I can not help but think that Beall did not care that he had another woman as long as Doug left her alone and her false image was not hindered. I truly believe Beall knew he was having an affair with Cassandra but did not care until something happened like Moorecraft and Bradrick coming to confront Doug and Doug was not given a choice but to resign.

      I personally think that Cassandra fell in love with him but she finally had to make a choice herself.

      Who know my brain is in overload on this one….so many secrets. just my 2 cents.

      • NeverAgain Says:

        We just don’t know what’s going through their minds. If Beall knew at all, she might have thought it was just a flirtation that would pass if she overlooked it. (How often are wives told to just overlook husbands’ mid-life crisis indiscretions?) Remember Maria Shriver, and how her husband conceived a son with their housekeeper? Not only that, but the boy was at their house so often that he was like a brother to her children? And Maria never knew. Even after she found out, and separated from her husband, it took years for her to actually divorce him. She must have loved him, and she often said that she didn’t believe in divorce. Certainly she didn’t need her husband’s money or status.

        So we don’t know that Beall knew at all, or that she is staying with Doug because of status. She might be planning a Katie Holmes style surprise divorce. Maybe she’s hoping to win him back because she loves him.

        Sometimes people stay in a bad situation until one day they have enough and just snap. This particular situation is getting worse every day for everyone. There’s almost no telling what anyone will do next.

        • Quiverful Questioner Says:

          I do not know Doug and Beall personally and have only heard him speak at 1 homeschool conference. I have bought some products from VF as well. So this is purely conjecture… I think it is possible that Beall could have known about the affair, even for a long time, and still stayed with Doug. And I think it is entirely possible that she wasn’t staying just because she liked being “lady of the manor”.

          She has 8 kids that are mostly still school aged. Even though she has a degree, it would be difficult to leave Doug and provide for them on her own. She hasn’t worked in at least 20 years.

          Even if she did get a job, what would she do with the kids while working? Would she put them in public school? Highly doubtful, considering the teachings she has been hearing all these years. Would she put them in private Christian school? It would be pretty expensive for 6 or 7 kids and even then the school’s teachings might not be “holy” enough.

          Also, if it is true that Doug had complete control over the finances, she couldn’t even get money that way. If he was embezzling money and squirreling it away to provide an exit strategy, I’m sure he hid it away well enough that neither Beall nor anyone else would be able to find it. If she outed him, she had to know that it would destroy the ministry and VF Inc’s ability to make money so therefore no child support or alimony payments from him. Doug has even estranged Beall from her parents, so likely no help there.

          Honestly, she didn’t really have a whole lot of options. How convenient for Doug that the VF teachings keep Beall tied to him, in spite of what he’s done. It really should be a wake-up call to all those quiverful, patriarchal wives out there. The poster boy for the movement had no qualms about abusing the teachings to sin against his wife.

          Really, in my mind, Beall’s only option is to write a tell-all book and divulge all Doug’s deep, dark secrets. 🙂 Hey, I’d pay $25 to read that one. Jen and TW have just scratched the surface and it’s already crazier than the National Inquirer!

        • Jen Says:

          Quiverful Questioner, welcome! You have painted a beautiful picture of a very stark situation indeed. Beall has allowed herself to be painted into a corner by Doug and his teachings, which have been drummed into her mind as well these last twenty years. You are correct that she really has no options. Except one. I love your idea of her writing a “tell-all” book, but I can seriously never see that happening! The Vision Forum Book Publishing company could out with a real bang! 🙂

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          I would buy that book as we’ll just to help her out.

          As far as Beall knowing. I am sure she knew on a sub conscious level (as I did), but only truly recognized it when the situation was made clear to her.

      • Turkey Says:

        Teresa N: “So many secrets”
        I’m a outsider, like you. So I imagine things. Imagine a man who wants to return America to pre-1860 status. A wife who wants just the same. A large, beautiful house in the South. World travel. Respect and adoration far and wide. MANY unpaid servants to cater to her whims. She might put up with a few things for all that. MANY were the Antebellum Southern “Bells” who put up with the Master showing special romance, affection, and physical components to servant girl. Came with the plantation territory.
        TW — something like this is why you chose “Eston”– No? Son of Mr “All men are created equal” Jefferson?”

      • Jen Says:

        Teresa N, I think you are probably spot on. Sadly.

  61. Johom Says:

    Is it possible that the story is even more twisted: The Nanny story now being used to cover for a gay affair? (check out google)

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      Possible? I suppose anything might be possible with Doug Phillips. Some possibilities are permissible for discussion here. The gay possibility, in my estimation, crosses the line.

      As I’ve been informed, there are one or two other blogs that are alleging that Doug Phillips is probably a closet gay and that he outed himself for the “inappropriate relationship with a woman” to preempt being outed for a gay affair. While a certain amount of speculation can, in certain cases, be propitious, openly speculating about Doug Phillips’ sexual preferences is purely salacious and inappropriate for this blog.

      The only reason we’ve openly discussed Doug’s clergy sexual abuse (and it most definitely was with a woman, not a man – hence “Cassandra” not “Bob”) is because there is hard evidence to support it. There isn’t a shred of evidence to support that Doug Phillips is gay or bisexual. So unless there are insiders who step forward with proof, we’re not going to be entertaining such speculations here.

      • Hugh McCann Says:

        @ T.W. Eston: I ask what your credentials are, & who might verify anything you’ve written, or at least witness as to your character?

        You allege some serious things here, and write as if reporting first-hand. Can you corroborate any of this, or are we merely to take you at your word?

        Thank you,
        Hugh McCann

  62. blessed2bamommy96 Says:

    Thank you for your work in bringing this to light. The clarification of 2012 makes more sense but also makes me more angry because it shows (even more) that a cover up was going on.

  63. Jen Says:

    Some people are questioning our “National Enquirer”-style of reporting here. I would like to clarify why we report these kinds of sensational stories, and why ask we ask for people to tell theirs. Doug Phillips, until very recently, was an extremely powerful man, a very big fish in a small pond. In that capacity, while teaching a very extreme form of conservative family values, thousands and thousands of well-meaning Christian families began to follow his teachings. In the last fifteen years, Doug Phillips has run roughshod over, bullied, hurt and harmed, and even ruined hundreds of lives, families and even churches. Indirectly, through his extreme views on patriarchy, thousands of his followers have been hurt in countless ways as well.

    Although I warned, many years ago, that Doug Phillips was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, only a small percentage heeded that warning. It is one thing for one person to tell a story about someone. It is another altogether for hundreds of people to tell similar stories of abuse and hypocrisy. Doug Phillips is NOT the man he claims to be, and he has caused great harm to many Christians all in the name of Christ. One way to make sure that people understand the grave severity of this situation is to tell the stories. I can claim all day long that Doug Phillips has hurt all these people (and he has), but if the stories are not told, then there is no impact to those who continue to idolize him. The only way to show that Doug Phillips did not live by his own teachings, teachings that thousands and thousands of people are still attempting to live their own lives by, is to tell the stories showing just how hypocritical he is. Why? Because even Doug Phillips, the “founder” of this extreme brand of patriarchy, cannot live by his own standards. So why should he expect others to continue this lifestyle of legalism God never intended for us in the first place? We will cover the specifics of what God does really say about all this a bit later, but first, the sin of a very public leader who leads a double life needs to be exposed.

    I wish we did not need to bring other people into Doug Phillips’ stories, but since the stories are all about what Doug has done to other people, that is an unfortunate necessity. Since Doug Phillips is a very public man, most of these people have gladly put themselves into the limelight along with him, and have participated publicly in his life. In that case, it is very difficult to keep their identity much of a secret. If we can keep it secret, we will. However, in all cases, even if most people do know the identity of Doug’s victims, out of respect for those already hurting, we will simply change their names. Such is the case in this story. Doug “confessed” to this relationship but he didn’t tell how much it violated everything he stood for.

    Our goal, at this blog, is to make sure that Doug Phillips never has an opportunity to be in public ministry again. He has caused tremendous harm to countless lives, yet he seriously thought he could just hunker down quietly for a year and then make a grand comeback. If he had only had a semi-physical, inappropriate relationship, or even a one-night stand, then there would have been room for possible restoration after true repentance. But the reality is that Doug Phillips has been living a double life for the last fifteen years, all while “demanding” near perfection to almost impossible standards of legalism for everyone else. It is our intention here to not only put a stop to Doug’s predatory and bully ways and his controlling teachings, but to also be a safe place of healing for all those who have either been hurt or are experiencing severe cognitive dissonance right now.

    I realize that many people want to just heal quietly on their own. I understand that. But please consider that thousands and thousands of people will only know the truth about Doug Phillips when others speak up, even anonymously.

    OK, off my soapbox for today!

    • JPGR Says:

      Another point to consider. One of the problems is that the things that DP purported to represent as a vanguard elite – namely, Biblical Christianity, homeschooling/excellence in education, a robust Christian presence in culture, life, family, Reformed theology, etc. – these things are all very important, and I would wager that many people here still believe that these things remain as lights or beacons of hope in a world that seems to be growing darker. (A beacon of hope of course being just that…something positive, beautiful, loving, humble and good). But the problem is that Phillips came in and co-opted many of these ideas and turned them into something sick, distorted. abusive and ungodly. Under his destructive leadership they turned into the very opposite of what they are potentially.

      That is why he has to be completely exposed and permanently disqualified from every position of Christian leadership. The metaphor is perfect: he is a wolf dressed up like a sheep. He is not a sheep who needs correction. He is a wolf whose goal is to deceive and then devour the sheep.

    • NC Says:

      “Although I warned, many years ago, that Doug Phillips was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, only a small percentage heeded that warning”

      For those who do not already know, not only did Jen warn others of Doug Phillips, she paid a high price to do it. From Doug himself and the many who fought for his legacy, Jen has been slandered and discredited. Doug and his entourage attempted at many levels to dismantle her efforts at exposing him. Many of the men who willingly joined Doug in his fury against Jen are still out there teaching and preaching the same crap Doug did, with apparently no regrets (certainly no apologies) for their participation in Doug’s deception.
      This should be the next big story, where are these accomplices? Where are the apologies? Where is the godly sorrow and repentance for leading so many in their own flocks to follow a wolf? The silence is deafening!

      • T.W. Eston Says:

        NC, I couldn’t agree more.

        There are many of Doug Phillips’ accomplices, primarily in the form of key Vision Forum employees and Interns. We know their names and we know their deeds. I’d like to out them all right now. In fact I’m chomping at the bit to out them. Jen is holding me back, but that’s only going to last so long. Jen’s patience for these young men exceeds mine, but her patience for them will soon expire too.

        With each passing day their silence only confirms their own lack of repentance and that they are incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves. Their lack of repentance can only mean that, if left to their own devices, they will go on to other “ministries” and repeat the cycle of abuses that their mentor, Doug Phillips, trained them in so well. I won’t stand idly by and allow that to happen.

        If they don’t start coming forward very soon themselves they’re going to face public exposure, right here, and the severe public criticism and loss of reputation that goes with it. If they hope to prevent it they need to, at the very least, do all of the following:

        1). Contact Jen and offer her a sincere, specific, non-evasive confession and apology for the evil deeds they have perpetrated, not only against her and her family, but against everyone else they have harmed by aiding and abetting Doug Phillips’ abuses, frauds, and crimes.

        2). Contact me and/or Jen via email and start dialoguing with us. Come clean about what you know. If you don’t do so we’ll take that as a clear indication of your past complicity in multiple cover ups, and your ongoing complicity in those cover ups.

        3). Stop posting face-saving distancing-yourself-from Doug Phillips Facebook comments and blog posts bemoaning the fall of an alleged great Christian leader, whom you don’t even have the guts to name, who supposedly fell only because of pride and an “affair” (this article clearly explains why it was no affair at all, so call it what it is).

        Jen and I are quite fed up with all the charades of you all just suddenly now coming to the realization that your mentor was corrupt, as though it all comes as a big surprise to you. You’ve all known for years how corrupt your leader was, and you all played an active part in aiding and abetting him, and corrupting yourselves in the process. It’s far too late now to try and distance yourselves. The only thing that can save any of you now is honest thoroughgoing confession and genuine repentance to everyone you have harmed.

        You aided and abetted Doug Phillips in some of the most diabolical ways imaginable, including playing the part of Mafiaosos (and yes, we know exactly who you each are) in silencing Jen and others who sought to expose Doug, including your attackblogs such as stillfedup.blogspot.com (which you just took offline in conjunction with Doug’s resignation). You aided and abetted in the ruination of Joe Taylor. You aided and abetted with threats and intimidations against multiple others that we know of but that we don’t have the liberty to name here (at least not yet).

        Matt Chancey, I have the liberty to publicly name you here now, since your name, and at least one of your dastardly deeds is public information anyway. I’ll for now resist the temptation of outing your accomplices, but since you proudly named yourself as the author of that ludicrous Mrs Binoculars web site it’s appropriate to name you here. It’s also public information that you are the Director of Persecution Project, founded by the notorious Brad Phillips, brother of Doug Phillips.

        If this comment doesn’t begin to soon elicit the appropriate responses then I will begin naming names of Doug Phillips’ accomplices. If doing so still doesn’t elicit the appropriate responses then I will name names and give accounts of their dastardly deeds.

        • JPGR Says:

          This is as it should be.

          As I posted yesterday, let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever flowing stream.

          The accomplices need to understand that their professed and duplicitous love for the Old Testament is a dangerous God. The God of the Bible loves justice. Justice will soon be done here, as it should be.

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          Stand back people, IT IS ON!

          T.W. I swear this reminds me of the ‘friends’ of mine who kept the secret of my husbands’ other wife and child’. Funny thing though, I did not have too exact any revenge, after I outed them, divorced the narcissist and went on to build a successful business; he has been married 4 times since and has 5 kids by 5 women. The Universe really is good.

          After all:

          What goes around….comes around.
          Karma is a B****
          Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says The Lord.

          Amazing the same principle expressed in so many ways. T.W. I do appreciate you and I like the way you write.

          Best. M

        • ColleenInWis Says:

          T.W. and Jen, how will the accomplices know of this comment? Have you confronted them personally with their need to repent?

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          Colleen, I’m confident that those who my comment applies to are reading this. They require no more public notice than what I’ve just issued. Furthermore, I won’t be getting into an argument with the Matthew 18 Police over this either.

        • Half truths abound Says:

          Anyone who responds to your threats is silly. Perhaps many among us do need to repent of things, but that should be the work of the Holy Spirit, not your blackmail. Seems you’ve forgotten compassion. A lot of those interns were sent by adoring families to work for little pay for a guy they idolized. Their little pieces of the puzzle were probably all they knew.

          The real heroes are not you, but the men who have seen the truth, recognized the situation for what it is, faced their fears and confronted him to his face. Many have tried that and failed including people I see posting here. Those guys are the real deal and I believe that others are doing things as well. This aint over. Your threats are most sad.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          HTA, my comment was self-explanatory when I qualified it with, “key Vision Forum employees and Interns.” That clearly does not include all VF employees and interns. I freely acknowledge that most VF employees and interns are victims, and some of them are hurting very deeply and will be for a long time to come. But they aren’t the target of my comment, and that should have been obvious. Sorry if it wasn’t obvious enough.

          As such it doesn’t apply to interns who only have “Their little pieces of the puzzle”. Those interns weren’t around long enough to have engaged in the sort of dastardly deeds I allude to, or perhaps did they even know of them. Those whom I’m addressing know who they are and what they’ve done, and they don’t include short-term interns with limited knowledge.

          As to “Those guys are the real deal” there are no such guys. None. The one or two that confronted Doug did so only after many months and years of not just turning a blind eye, but actively aiding and abetting Doug. When they did ultimately confront him it was purely out of trying to save their own bacon (Joe Morecraft being the lone exception — he knew nothing). Being a key VF employee or intern was all about enabling and covering for Doug. You didn’t get the position unless you were willing to do so. Those key people were all complicit.

          I do agree with one thing you said: “This aint over.”

        • Half truths abound Says:

          I actually don’t believe that they did it to “save their own bacon.” – and I’m going to stand by that. There were earlier confrontations as well, just not as “big.”

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          Confrontations that resulted in… what exactly? [sound of crickets chirping] Absolutely nothing. And when I say nothing I mean not even did anyone quit their job after any alleged confrontation that didn’t result in appropriate behavioral changes. They cared first and foremost for the precious positions. They stayed and they continued enabling, and they continued turning a blind eye to Doug’s ten-years long “inappropriate relationship”, and a litany of other grievous sins.

          Only when Doug got caught with his pants down (literally) did things start to approach the level of a genuine confrontation.

          We have very different definitions of what constitutes a confrontation, HTA. My definition goes well beyond a courteous “Please don’t do that again” (or as you call it “just not as big”). But I would welcome your sharing any particulars here you know of any alleged confrontations, what words were exchanged, when it happened, what it happened over, etc.

        • Jen Says:

          HT, if there were earlier confrontations, why don’t those people come forward now? I would think that would be highly significant!

        • ColleenInWis Says:

          Ok, thanks, T.W., for the reply. I appreciate your and Jen’s work here. God bless your efforts to shed light on the fall-out of DP’s resignation.

        • noturniptruck Says:

          There are many of Doug Phillips’ accomplices, primarily in the form of key Vision Forum employees and Interns. We know their names and we know their deeds. I’d like to out them all right now. In fact I’m chomping at the bit to out them. Jen is holding me back, but that’s only going to last so long. Jen’s patience for these young men exceeds mine, but her patience for them will soon expire too.

          I can see some people that were enablers, but some I can’t and they were just as much victims as the others. Regardless of how much they worked for Doug, I think you need to leave the interns alone. Even the ones who became permanent employees after their internship……It is really not fair to them to drag them through the mud. Regardless if they knew what was going on or saw questionable things, do you really think they had the power to “stop” Doug? Do you really think that they could have been victims as well (especially these interns, that idolized Doug and obeyed him regardless if it was right or wrong)? Also, don’t you know that they didn’t realize they were in a cult and they were deathly afraid of Doug and how he would completely ruin them like he did others?? Do you think that they weren’t in some ways “victims” as well? I think you are crossing the line going after them. They were just slaves to the powerful Wizard/Darth Vader and they lost themselves (especially these young interns straight from a sheltered environment of mom & dad). Many of them have not been able to see clearly of what was happening and right from wrong until they got away from VF/DP/SA! Please leave them alone! It won’t change anything. It won’t change how Doug is/was.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          @noturniptruck: “I can see some people that were enablers, but some I can’t and they were just as much victims as the others.”

          I’m taking all that into account, and I’ve already clearly stated that, “I freely acknowledge that most VF employees and interns are victims, and some of them are hurting very deeply and will be for a long time to come. But they aren’t the target of my comment, and that should have been obvious.”

          We know quite well who the innocent are, and we also know who the perps are. There should be no need of any of the innocents, or parents of the innocents, to worry that they’ll be falsely accused. However if any of the innocents have pangs of guilty conscience, perhaps they should take steps to deal with that as they are so led.

          I know in my own life I’ve made many mistakes that weren’t necessarily my fault. Yet I still must take personal responsibility and confess it accordingly. For example I did that after I’d discovered I’d joined not a church, but a religious sociological cult (much like BCA). I’d been deceived by my cult leader into joining. Was that my fault? No, but it was still my responsibility, so I confessed and repented to my family for allowing myself to be deceived.

          I suggest the interns do the same, or if it was their parents who sent them off to be indoctrinated in Doug Phillips’ VF cult then it is they who need to take responsibility and confess it to their sons. If they and their sons aren’t guilty of harming anyone then their confessions remain a private family matter. However, those interns who are guilty of harming people (and they know who they are, as do we) those aren’t private matters, anymore than are Doug’s transgressions private matters. They need to take immediate steps to make amends for their transgressions.

        • oneh20 Says:

          Thank you, TW. What cult did you come out of? May I ask how you know “Cassandra”?

      • VFknowMORE Says:

        During the time that Jen was warning people, within the NCFIC circles the “Gossip” CD of Scott Brown’s was being played and bought. The leaders had done a good job of scaring people into obedient silence. Questions? They equaled gossip? Concerns? They equaled bitterness. A “gossip” was to have been thrown out of the church and treated like a cancer. We were told at Jamestown that they brought extra “security” to protect Doug from those who were attempting to ruin VF. It was a brilliant move on their part. Circling the wagons around the leader. I am sure many saw things through the years, but you would not want to be the one to yell “wolf”, for Doug had already proven what he would do to someone yelling the warning. Church discipline, smearing of your reputation, fear, and threat of legal action. The interns need to start talking. I think there is a shame one feels, I know I did, when you realize that you your gut was telling you to run, something’s not right, etc… and you did nothing. Don’t be shameful. Talk.

        • NC Says:

          VFknowMORE, I believe the gossip CD by Scott Brown was more to keep people from discussing his own abuses. It’s funny how their view of gossip is completely one way. Those who speak against them are labeled gossips and become open targets to be gossiped about. I have not been a part of Scotts church for many years, but the gossip continues to the present.

        • Jen Says:

          VFknowMORE, I can’t believe they seriously thought I was a physical threat to anyone! That’s hilarious! I can see the headlines now: “Manly Man Hires Extra Security to Protect Him From Stay-at-Home Mom.” And people actually believed him? Wow!

          I’ll bet that “Gossip” CD is BURNED into the minds of so many even to this day. I pray that that brainwashing will lose its stronghold on people’s minds.

        • blessed2bamommy96 Says:

          I didn’t know about Jen back then but I well remember the “Gossip” CD being played at our church. WOW

          VFknowMORE, The church you described sounds similar to something local to me. Is the new church “plant” you referred to headed by GB? If you would like to e-mail me privately, I give permission for Jen to give you my e-mail address.

        • NC Says:

          HTA, why would you be following this blog if for some reason you did not see the validity of using this medium to both call sinful men to repentance and warn others of wolves in sheeps clothing? I will assume the reason you are reading here at all is because you recognize its value in both calling Doug to repentance and exposing him. We all know Jen did not start this blog to air her grievances or seek pity, like some VF interns recently did on Facebook, but to continue the biblical process of exposing a false teacher.
          The other men of whom TW is talking about have been confronted personally, and have scoffed, they have been confronted by their churches, and have chosen to split them. I know because I lived through it, I have the firsthand experience of this whole ungodly mess. My family is split today because of men who followed Doug’s advice at the expense of confession and repentance. The only difference between these other men and Doug is that their pride has not found its tipping point yet.
          VF and NCFIC have used the internet to propagate their message, they have made the internet the field in which they sow their seeds and seek followers (customers to be precise). So at the end of the day, when personal confrontation fails, and then “two or three” are thrown under the bus, then local church discipline results in split churches, the last place to stay faithful in exposing these wolves is the same place they are going to raid.

        • Jen Says:

          NC, thanks for validating that this is a widespread problem. I am very sad to hear, however, what this has done to your own family. I pray that there will be healing there one day.

        • Scott Says:

          I’m surprised the idiot drama queen hasn’t staged an assassination attempt for sympathy.

        • Jen Says:

          I’m an internet “assassin,” according to Doug. Does that count? 😉

        • Just a shadow Says:

          Agree 100%

    • Rachel Says:

      Telling the story is not a problem. I am upset that you posted her picture in such a way that it is very easy for people to make out her identity. I am far outside of the VF circle and do not personally know this woman, but I know multiple people have identified her based on the photo. You should take the photo down because it outs her.

      • Jen Says:

        Doug Phillips paraded Cassandra around as his trophy for years. I hope people take some time to think about the many times they saw them together, either in person or on videos. Does the picture look any different now? She was not a well-hidden secret by any stretch of the imagination.

        Please understand that she was extremely close to my family at one point, so I love her dearly. But she was a very public figure as well.

        • Rachel Says:

          If you’re going to out her because you think exposing Doug Phillips is more important than keeping private the identity of a victim of sexual assault, then you should openly admit that that’s your goal. If you are not going to do so, you really should take down that picture ASAP. Right now, you two (especially T.W. Eston) are trying to have your cake and eat it too. Taking down the innocent along with the guilty is not just morally wrong, it could also expose you to a lawsuit — a much easier lawsuit for “Cassandra” to win than a lawsuit against Doug Phillips.

          Again, I am not part of the VF community by a long shot. I am three or four degrees away at least away from everyone in this story. But if I saw “Cassandra” on the street, I would be able to recognize her because of the photo you posted. This is the audience to whom you are exposing “Cassandra” by keeping that photo up.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          “But if I saw “Cassandra” on the street, I would be able to recognize her because of the photo you posted.” That’s bogus. If you didn’t already know Cassandra you couldn’t possibly identify her from a highly pixelated photo of her. Even if you did know her I seriously doubt you’d ever connect a pixelated photo to her. Your statement stretches all credulity. And please don’t make any arguments about the hair not being pixelated. The photo was from 2010 and her hair looks quite different now from what it did them.

          The photo I posted is no different than what any photo journalist posts when they want to conceal the identity of someone in a photo. You’re making far too much of this, and that’s especially evident in your absurd insinuations of lawsuits.

          Nevertheless, to put a stop to this I’ve cropped the photo. If that doesn’t prove satisfactory I don’t know what would.

        • kbrightbill Says:

          If you love her dearly, you wouldn’t be doing this to her. You have to know from your blog search stats just as much as I know from mine that people are googling looking to find out her identity. They don’t know who she is, otherwise I wouldn’t be getting scores of hits on variations of, “who was the woman in Doug Phillips affair.” You are being irresponsible and inventing justifications for outing a victim so you can bring down Doug Phillips. It’s wrong, it’s unethical, and it’s tabloid journalism.

        • Searching Says:

          I’d like to think better of you, but this comment just strikes me as cavalier… Doug Phillips flaunted her, so you get to flaunt her, too. Honestly I think you are re-victimizing the victim by being so indifferent to the possibility that you’re exposing her identity instead of doing what you should be doing, protecting it.

        • Jen Says:

          This comment is in reply to everyone who thought we should not have posted a picture with a blurred face of Cassandra. We blurred her face on purpose but Doug has paraded her around for the last ten years like she was his personal trophy. She was every bit as much a celebrity in her own right as was Beall, and I am sure that she enjoyed all that attention. While there are plenty of public pictures out there, we chose to blur her face instead, but apparently many felt that was too public still. So, we have decided to change the picture significantly, as you see in the article above. The emphasis was on the ring, which is worn by Cassandra.

          I am glad to see that so many care about her so deeply.

        • Corrine Says:

          So he really paraded her around as a girlfriend? Or as a nanny? So strange ….

        • Jen Says:

          Corrine, he “paraded” her around by giving her prominence in many events, by featuring her in many movies/videos, and by keeping her near his side. It was not the normal Father/Nanny relationship.

        • Rachel Says:

          “TW”, if you genuinely thought I was bullshitting, then you wouldn’t have changed the photo. And so quickly too!

          Thanks for doing the right thing, even if you had to do it in the rudest manner possible. If what I hear about you is true, then I suppose it’s just your nature.

        • Jen Says:

          Rachel, it was my idea to change the pic. The focus was going in the wrong direction.

          Let’s get back to what Doug Phillips needs to be exposed for so that we can prevent this from happening again, shall we?

          And please remember to be respectful here. Thanks!

        • watchfuleyes Says:

          yeah! Thank you so much for cropping this photo of “cassandra”…….I think it was a very wise decision…….

        • Looking In Says:

          Jen & TW –
          I suggest you NOT name her until she names herself.
          She will.
          I have seen her name on other blogs, so many already know.
          But, I encourage you to hold your ground.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          We plan on it. Just to be clear about it, that’s a self-imposed restriction, not one that anyone else has requested, including Cassandra. The fact of the matter is that Cassandra wouldn’t have had a problem with it had we used her name. She’s not trying to hide what happened and she talks quite openly about it. She’s been quite vocal about it, so it’s hardly a secret.

          This isn’t to say that she’s prepared to come forward and tell her story publicly. But she’s also indicated that she’s not trying to hide it either.

          In light of this I find all the hyper-sensitivity about pixelated pictures, etc. to be over the top.

        • Looking In Says:

          Hi TW~
          My apologies if I came across critical. I really meant to encourage you to maintain the integrity of this blog.
          That is why I read it. I was encouraging you to stay on the high road.
          I was never concerned about the pixilated photo. I thought it was fine.

          Thanks for bringing so much to light.

        • watchfuleyes Says:

          Doug Phillips paraded Cassandra around as his trophy for years. I hope people take some time to think about the many times they saw them together, either in person or on videos.

          That’s why I say that people SAW what was going on and were made to ignore it or Doug made some excuse to “gloss over” what was REALLY happening. Another words, they were blind to it.

          I am glad C is talking about it but really, the more details and her side, the better. There’s more damage being done with all of this classic VF Secrecy. So they have NO Problems publicly blasting and ruining others but when it comes to Doug and his blatant SINS (plural), then everyone goes quiet……….??? I don’t think so!

          I bet if C wrote a book about her experience and what has happened the last 12 years, it would do very VERY well 🙂

        • Jen Says:

          Cassandra should definitely write a book, too! Two women. Two books. Two perspectives. Both best-sellers. At least in the patriarchy circles.

        • watchfuleyes Says:

          TW or Jen:

          Was C paid “off” to keep quiet or do you know? Do you think we will hear her side or the details of what really happened anytime soon or in the future?

        • Jen Says:

          Watchfuleyes, it does not appear that she was paid off. Only time will tell what details we will know in this “No Gossip” zone.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          As more has come to light it appears that she wasn’t paid off. In fact the opposite was the case. She worked in his home for years without pay. It’s the Doug Phillips way.

          The same applies at Vision Forum where many entire families have come in to work each day but only the dads get paid. Moms and sons and daughters work there for no pay. But that doesn’t go against Doug’s teachings that wives must not work for another man. No, you see, they’re not really working for Doug, they’re working for their husband, who, um, works for Doug. So mom isn’t really working for Doug. See? No, I didn’t think so. It’s confusing to me too.

          ” Do you think we will hear her side or the details of what really happened anytime soon or in the future?” The answer is yes, but it won’t happen by her writing her story and posting it here or anywhere else. She’s handling it a different way. It will come out though, and it will probably be relatively soon.

      • fact Says:

        Rachel, I can assure you that Cassandra is not concerned with hiding her identity, although she is not coming out for other reasons, she also has stated she doesn’t care if people know it’s her.

        • Jen Says:

          Fact, thank you for sharing the “facts” with us.

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          Thanks Fact for corroborating what I’ve stated above. Jen and I were quite surprised by the flurry of angry comments and emails we received yesterday over the photo I used of Cassandra. Even though I heavily pixelated her face (standard journalistic practice), it just wasn’t good enough for some.

          We’ve gone far above and beyond what was necessary, or even what Cassandra herself cares for us to do. We’ve tried very hard to be sensitive to everyone’s concerns for her, but for some it’s just never enough. In an ironically Doug Wilson style they cry “You’re re-victimizing the victim.” In doing so they don’t realize they’re actually aiding Doug Phillips. The loudest complainers are always the most ignorant. They don’t know Cassandra. They know nothing of her circumstances. These are the ones who demand that she be treated as though she were a little child. She’s 30 years old now and doesn’t require the measure of confidentiality that a 10 year old would. More importantly, that’s not what she wants.

          The fact of the matter is that Cassandra is more than pleased with how we’ve treated her. Our stories are helping her, and we’ve been very careful to ensure that everything we do here helps her. We wouldn’t throw Cassandra under the bus for the sake of exposing Doug Phillips.

          I’m not completely insensitive to our critics either though. As long as their demands are reasonable I’m willing to accommodate them, and I generally have. I’m especially concerned for those victims of clergy sexual abuse who are reading this story and, in doing so, are experiencing flashbacks and PTSD symptoms. I’ve never gone through anything like that myself (although I do know a great deal about clergy emotional, psychological and spiritual abuse), so I won’t pretend I know what that feels like. All I know is it’s absolutely awful. My heartfelt prayers are with you.

          It’s challenging telling an horrific story like this and it not upsetting many people. Believe me, I am outraged by all of this myself. My paramount concern, and my chief goal, is to do everything I can to ensure that Doug Phillips is never permitted to victimize anyone ever again. The only way that can happen is if he spends the rest of his life in prison (that’s not going to happen), or if his evil deeds are made to be so notorious that no one will ever trust him again.

        • Jen Says:

          TW Eston, I don’t tell you often enough, but thank you so much for all your incredibly hard work you do here to protect more people from getting hurt by continuing to expose the tremendous amount of damage perpetrated by Doug Phillips. We will never please everyone, so our goal must remain focused on telling as much as possible to expose this hypocrite in order to prevent him from continuing this barrage of abuse, while protecting all others in the best way we can.

          Thank you so much for doing such a tremendous work here! I couldn’t do this without you!

        • oneh20 Says:

          Hi TW,

          Although I appreciate what you have written here, this statement – “She’s 30 years old now and doesn’t require the measure of confidentiality that a 10 year old would. More importantly, that’s not what she wants”. – that statement… seems to contradict some things for me. She is 30 years old. If she is strong enough to handle these kind of posts, it would seem that she is hardly a gullible victim… In other words, can we really have it both ways? She would need to have a good head on her shoulders to handle this situation but wouldn’t that same good head on her shoulders make it clear that she was involved in severe deception of people who loved her? At what point is she responsible? I am not stating that I don’t understand the massive confusion when she was younger regarding his intentions for her, but at some point, for many people in similar circumstances, there is an aha moment and the truth is, you start to settle for pay off of some sort, whether in be lifestyle or whatever, but you KNOW what yo are doing is wrong… Just trying to see things from every angle…

        • T.W. Eston Says:

          You’ve stated: “for many people in similar circumstances, there is an aha moment and the truth is… you KNOW what yo are doing is wrong.” Are there “similar circumstances”?

          Even for a religious sociological cult this seems to be a highly unusual case, i.e. it’s difficult to compare it to anything else we know of or could relate to. Unless someone has actually lived for years in a religious sociological cult they won’t even begin to comprehend what someone like Cassandra was thinking and how she could have allowed herself to be deceived for so many years. Yes, it certainly took her an awful long time to come to that “aha” moment.

          The important thing is Cassandra is deceived no longer.

        • noturniptruck Says:

          The fact of the matter is that Cassandra is more than pleased with how we’ve treated her. Our stories are helping her, and we’ve been very careful to ensure that everything we do here helps her. We wouldn’t throw Cassandra under the bus for the sake of exposing Doug Phillips.

          so does that mean that she reads this blog and these posts then?

        • Teresa N Says:

          fact,

          Can you please clarify what you mean by…..She also has stated she doesn’t care if people know it’s her.

          Is she remorseful that this affair happened and is she taking responsibility for her part ….just curious.

          Please clarify if you can…thanks

        • Justwondering Says:

          I have been thinking the same thing.
          I really don’t care what role Doug Phillips played in seducing Cassandra, she is not some victim to being party to a 10+ year affair. She most definitely is a responsible adult who willingly allowed this to go on way past her youth. I pray she realizes she is guilty of a very serious lifestyle of sin against her God and against Beall, who trusted her with her most precious possessions, her husband and her children. May she look to an infinitely merciful savior for forgiveness, restoration and healing in her life.

        • Teresa N Says:

          posted under wrong spot sorry jen

    • Truehart Says:

      Jen
      Thank you for these observations about the sincerity of purpose in your intentions.

      The healing begins with understanding the facts of what happened and processing that into each individual experience

    • A Shore Says:

      I stumbled upon your blog before this big scandal broke. Your abuse from BCA rang true to me because I grew up in an IFB (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church) and the same behavior patterns existed there. The best way to stop this is to do EXACTLY what you and TW are doing; otherwise , the bad behavior continues.

      Someone posted Nathaniel Darnell’s article on perseveronews.com about Vision Forum and to be quite frank , I found his article annoying. He dances around the issues, IMO, and doesn’t call it out ; yet he has a website wanting Christians to get involved in the public sphere ; yet doesn’t seem to recognize a wolf when it is obvious to a distant outsider.

      • oneh20 Says:

        This blog serves a good purpose, but maybe there needs to be that reminder that his article offers – that God is the One we ultimately need to keep our eyes on. When people feel that their “leader” has fallen, has betrayed them, has misled them, there is a much needed reminder that there is ONE who will never fall, never betray, never mislead… And as important as it is to fellowship, albeit online, with people who “get it”, Christ should still be our central focus. There IS healing in relating to others and so forth, but the real healing is found in leaning on the Everlasting Arms.

        • A Shore Says:

          I agree but the Lord uses us as his agents for guarding the sheep and when we don’t exercise it properly we have sociopaths running the show.

        • oneh20 Says:

          Oh, believe me I get it. But there needs to be a balance of where or on whom we put our attention.

        • Jen Says:

          oneh20, absolutely! We need to all run to Jesus in these situations. Thank you for an excellent reminder of where to keep our focus.

      • Jen Says:

        A Shore, yes, while I am glad that a few have found their voice, they are still speaking all around the big, pink elephant in the middle of the room.

    • Sarah Pressler Says:

      You need to post this as a sticky post on the home page of your blog, or repost this as a blog post itself and link to it on your home page. It’s important that THIS is featured material.

  64. Sarah Says:

    Peter Bradrick has been suddenly silent the last couple weeks after saying he had a lot he wanted to say.

  65. VFknowMORE Says:

    I’ve been a lurker on Jen’s blog for years. I was cornered many years ago at our NCIF church for reading her blog, actually. I was counseled by other women in the church to stay away from the blog. I read it secretly and quietly, and as I read it I realized we were in a cult, or at the least, a cult like church. As I read Jen’s story I became angered at myself and my husband for our choices. I realized we were in deep, and felt there was no way out. My husband was an elder at our church by then, so I had no one to turn to or talk to. I let a “snarky” comment on your blog, Jen, accusing you of spreading gossip. I regretted that and am sorry for that all these years later. We left our NCIF church about three yrs ago. We were “shunned” by all of those friends, and had lost all of our previous friends because they were not “like minded.” Our church was a strange mix of Gothard and VF, with a little bit of Pearl thrown in by one family. Our family was almost destroyed. Our marriage was in shambles. We only had three children, and that wasn’t good enough. Adoption of more children made it “better” for us, and would have God looking more “approvingly” on us for the tubal ligation I had after the birth of my youngest bio child. Our family staggered into a church that taught Grace and Christ alone. We are just beginning to see the light out of this, and we’ve greatly struggled to not find joy in Doug’s falling. We daily remind ourselves that we are but dust as well. For those of you who read this blog, and have never been in the midst of this lifestyle, it may all sound bizarre and unbelievable. It is truth for those of us who have lived it. The Patriarchal mind control almost destroyed us. The only thing that saved our family was a desperate call I made to my Father in Law and Brother in Law one night that told them that we were in trouble and needed them to step in. It was like reaching out to cult members. Thankfully my husband their words and did the right thing for his family. We left. We were in deep to the VF lifestyle. Our shelves and house was filled with thousands of dollars worth of VF merchandise. We now call them the religous “relics” of Patriarchy. We were at the picnics, the Titanic dinners, Father Daughter events, and Jamestown. We had plans to start going to the BIG events, the ten day long tours, and after talking to some other families, we even thought of moving to San Antonio. We felt like if we were around more families, the “cream of the crop” then our children had a better chance at finding the right mate, etc… We were going to have our oldest son apply for the internship program, we had started networking with other families for our daughters to court, etc… I guess I’m saying all of this to say, we were the classic VF follower, and their are lots and lots of other families that are just like us. If we had still be in it and had not left, I believe we would be spinning right now, and questioning if all of this is true. At this point, I believe every bit and believe there is MORE coming. I knew when I read his “apology” that it was a Clinton apology. After seeing him and talking to him at events through the years, this is no surprise. He’s a Napolean. We’ve seen him scream at his children, order his wife around, order his workers around, he literally throws hissy fits. We’ve seen the creepy Botkin behavior… never see the Botkin wife, but those two girls, who are stunning, are kept close like they are royalty. We’ve seen the guys in black suits, playing CIA. At JAmestown, which I could write another whole essay on, is where I started to actually think. RC Sproul JR was there, and I saw and formed an opinion of him there different than what I have read about. The Morecrafts, Potter, Bradricks, Browns, but the one thing that has stuck with me for YEARS was the woman of whom I believe is “Cassandra”. If it is whom I think it is, I saw that she was heralded publicly for her beauty, dressed up, and put on display as the leader of a parade at Jamestown. I also remember standing right next to a very starry eyed Joshua who was talking and talking and talking to her. It was a “crush” kind of talk, and I remember thinking at that point that I wondered if they would end up together, but my husband said probably not because of the large age difference. She was a beauty, and had clothes that I would have died for. Jamestown was a gathering of ALL of the names, big and small, and it was an education to me of how people were different than their blogs. I met Beall there too, and remember the devotion she had for her children. She was gracious, he was pompous and arrogant. We met many families that were encouraging us to move to TX. It was the Mecca. I am concerned for Beall. If I had not had both sides of our family to turn to, I don’t know if we would have left. I hope she has family to turn to. I am hopeful that Peter Bradrick, or Scott Brown speaks up and speaks loudly. I don’t have any friends left in this world at this point. The church we were in basically dissolved. Another church split off of it and “planted” a church that is very VF. It is led by a big name that has spoken at recent VF events. We’re doing well now, but it has been a de tox. We’ve had to relearn what the Gospel is, and what Grace is. We purged our house of all things VF. We actually have what I think is PTSD with certain triggers. Homeschool conventions are one of those triggers still. Sorry for the big “dump.” My biggest point is to say, this is true. BELIEVE it. For those of us who have walked it, believe it. For Jen, after walking what we walked when we left, and tried to talk to people about the bondage, etc… I now get a small part of what happened to you. I appreciate you, and your strength, and your honesty. I appreciate that you are steadfast in your love of God. I pray that your heart heals after all that you’ve gone through, and for those that were nay sayers to your story years ago, may they see now that God has allowed you to walk through that, share your story, and pave the way for this exposing of truth. May God be glorified, and may people see how quickly idols can be worshipped, in the form of people.

    • Grace Alone Says:

      My heart goes out to you because although I was not in a VF cult, the extreme fundamentalist “christian” cult I was in produced in me every feeling you felt. Wanting to be the “cream of the crop” and thinking SO arrogantly that we were better is the essense of legalism and pride, the original sin. God has healed and is healing me over the years because He showed me grace and the truth of the Gospel. I hate you have no friends around you. I know we could be great friends, rejoicing in God’s grace together! Tim Keller’s book “The Prodigal God” is a very helpful read coming out of a cult; I was a picture of the elder brother. Very convicting. May God’s richest blessings uphold you as you constantly seek His truth in this healing process.

    • Interesting Says:

      Thank you for sharing your story. Keep on typing…

    • Lally Says:

      Thank you for sharing. I can completely relate to the PTSD after experiencing spiritual abuse at the hands of a Calvary Chapel “pastor” (thankfully he is no longer in ministry). My husband bore the brunt of his abuse and hasn’t been the same since. Abuse at the hands of a so-called shepherd in the name of God is very harmful. What you went through ran much deeper as it involved every aspect of your lives and everyone who you thought were your friends.

      Anyway, I’m so glad that you found your way out and are free in the grace of the gospel.

    • Jen Says:

      VFknowMORE, oh how my heart breaks for you! Thank you so much for sharing what you have shared with us. I know exactly how you felt and what you really mean as you shared each word here. I feel like we could be best friends. Losing ALL my friends was the hardest part. They were family to me. I know you understand that.

      I accept your apology and I realize that you thought you were doing what was right at the time.

      I have found that talking about it all brings so much healing. I hope that you will also find healing here. Welcome, friend!

    • Grace&Peace Says:

      VFknowMORE, my heart breaks for you. I have been reading Jen’s blog for years, probably since the very beginning as a lurker. I know many of the characters in these stories and have had my own run-ins with DP on occasion (nothing real serious, thankfully). Joe Taylor has been in my home and has told us first hand his story. I have been waiting for this day for years! I am so glad this is all coming out and so glad that you have told your story. I hope it causes others to tell theirs, as well, because Doug *has* to be stopped. By so many telling their stories it will help spread everything so far and wide that hopefully he will never be able to rise to “ministry” again. I also hope that the interns and others heed T.W.s call and come clean……immediately! You know who you are and you know what you have done. Do your part so that this can all be over with and those who need to heal can begin that healing.
      VFknowMORE, please know that there are many people out there who understand and are not judgmental. Find a good, solid church and start anew. Don’t mention anything about VF. Move on. If you need a friend, I’m there for you. I’ll be glad to come along side you and walk with you.

    • just a shadow Says:

      You have no idea how much your testimony resonates with me. May God have mercy on all of us who were seduced by the pretty fairy tale life of VF. If I could have one wish in life, it would be that we had never, ever exposed our children to that world. I have asked my children for forgiveness for getting entangled in such a lie.

      • Jen Says:

        Just a shadow, I know that we wish we could have “do-overs” in life, but rather than living in regret, let’s allow these experiences to make us stronger individuals and stronger families, and someday, stronger churches, for it. There are SO many lessons we can learn from this, and we can now be instrumental in helping others heal as well. I believe that God allows us hardship in life, partly so that we can comfort others who come along behind us.

        You are who you are today because of all these experiences, both good and bad. And I believe that you and I, and most others who got caught up in all this, did so because we thought we were doing not only what was best for our families, but also we desired to live holy lives. Now we’ve had our eyes opened a bit, but we are the better for having gone through it.

        • DaMom Says:

          I agree with Jen, we can learn lots of lessons from any and all experiences that we go through, how else can we help those who are struggling with the same thing we ourselves faced?
          For example, when my sister died, people would say to my mother, “I know how you feel.” How could they?! They never lost a child in death! The only ones who could have possibly of known what it was like to face that were those who had lost a child. Counselors will say that the 2 most devastating deaths in this world to overcome are: children losing parents; parents losing children. I can’t possibly know, other than what my husband says, what it’s like to lose a parent, when both of my parents are still living. I can’t possibly know, other than what my mama says, what it’s like to lose a child, when all of mine are still alive.
          So, how can anyone know what it’s like to be influenced and being involved in a “cult or cult like atmosphere”, other than those who’ve been there, done that?

          Don’t have regrets. Isn’t it our pride rising up again by being embarrassed for allowing ourselves to be under this type of influence? Wasn’t it our pride to be the “best or cream of the crop” that got a lot of us involved in the Gothard/VF mess to begin with? I’ll admit it was my pride that got my family involved in the Gothard “mess.”

          If your spouse is in agreement with you that these people were/are “whack-jobs” then he/she is your BEST friend..they escaped WITH you (or helped you to escape)! smile

          (Please) Ask forgiveness from your children, tell them you were wrong to put your trust in a man instead of God…those are major “faith” lessons to be learned for both you AND your children. Learn together, seek God’s Word and pray together WITHOUT outside influences (we love our pastor, but we don’t always agree with his paraphrase of the scriptures–be Bereans and seek out the truth for yourselves–decide as a family what God’s Will is for “your” family), talk about it, gain strength from each other, let your children help with holding each other accountable to what God says, not what a man says–sometimes we don’t give them enough credit/respect for their knowledge on a given topic.

          I know my kids saw the hypocrisy long before we admitted to it–they told us so afterwards. We weren’t involved for long and didn’t go deep within the Gothard movement, but at the same time, it was one of those surreal moments…wondering if we were we really seeing what was being displayed in front of us. It took a confrontation with the “elders” of the church we were attending to be the “finger snap” to wake us up out of a trance like state.
          That was 13 years ago, and with the news of DP/VF, we find ourselves talking about our “days of Gothard” again with the younger children who don’t know anything about what had happened. My older kids have chimed in and we’re reminded once again about following after God and not men.

          I’m on the other side where I can now “count it all joy” for what we experienced…because…as Jen said…it’s made us stronger in our walk with God.
          I have no idea of this is helpful for anyone but wanted to put my thoughts out there. Jen, you have my permission to delete this if it isn’t. smile.

        • cptruthlover Says:

          Yes, God for sure works all things for our good! Praise the Lord! I wish I was a better mom (doesn’t everyone) and that I had stood up to many abusive people from my youth and the church, but I definitely am wiser and very empathetic towards others because of it. Does that mean the family member does not cause me anguish and pain when I talk to them? No. I have days where everything is fresh again, I just have to give it back to the Lord. I am so thankful for all of you wonderful, humble people out there who aren’t trying to be something they are not. We are all just a work in progress. Come soon Jesus!

        • Jen Says:

          DaMom, I loved it!! Super stuff!

        • Teresa N Says:

          Amen sister Amen

        • Donna Says:

          Beautiful post, DaMom! Thanks for sharing.

    • Tim Says:

      There are so many hurt people replying here. It is hard to believe that “Elders” can be selfish and self centered. I just read through this article and don’t think that Scott Brown will speak up loudly on this situation. Notice that he is or has been on the payroll of VisionForum. I wonder if that is why he is not making any public statements? You can’t serve God and Mammon.

      From the article:
      [When considering Scott’s possible reasons for changing his mind, it is important to know that during 2005, he worked 30 hours per week for VF and received $53,089 in compensation ($57,333 total in “Director’s Fees”) from VF – more than even Doug Phillips as President/Treasurer.

      In 2006, Scott worked 30 hours a week for Vision Forum, and received $37,095 in compensation from Vision Forum ($41,596 total in “Director’s Fees”).

      Both of these years, Scott worked five hours more a week for VF than the President of VF, Doug Phillips.

      The Congregation of Trinity, including the Deacons, was completely unaware of any of this at the time, in spite of the fact that Scott was the only elder receiving a salary from Trinity, $28,000, annualized.]

      http://ephesians511.wordpress.com/how-it-begins-3306-to-42206/

      I think that this whole “patriarchy” movement is built on a faulty foundation. The leaders of it seem to be looking out for each other and themselves and not those they are supposedly shepherding.

      • Joyelle Says:

        Good comments. It seems that Scott is towing the line on his own ‘no gossip rule’. But from a pragmatic standpoint, wouldn’t Brown want to take a public stand against Phillips? After all, if he wants to remain at the helm of the NCFIC, he Will want to rally the shipmates…. Guilt by association could result in a mutiny and he is probably pacing himself so that it doesn’t happen. I Will be surprised if Scott Brown does not cut ties with DP and carefully maintain his own position as captain of the NCFIC. It is a powerful position. I also doubt that SB fears Doug. Scott is a wealthy businessman and able to fend for himself.

        • justathought Says:

          Try this, SB is taking a stand against Doug, but its through his son in law, Peter. Scott has never been one to soil his hands, look at the apostasy sermon and you will see he never called Doug by name and the sermon took a generic direction in the end.
          Look again at Peters posts, “woe is me, blah blah blah” he told his story and disappeared. Peters posts in reality were gossip, we don’t care what Doug called him, we don’t care how bad Doug hurt him and how Doug’s actions are going to shape his life, that’s your problem Peter, you made your bed next to his. We don’t need to hear this, it’s gossip, designed to undermine Doug without ever identifying his actual sin and without warning others to flee, short of these it’s gossip.
          After one confrontation Peter takes to the web gossiping in a way that is tabu according to their own teaching? And Scott take the “high road” by preaching a generic sermon? Could it be, that SB has encouraged young Peter to “get these things off your chest, tell your friends what happened so they can “pray” for you” and in the process benefited greatly by maintaining his leadership image while Doug is thrown under the bus by Peter?
          This would not be the first time Scott has directed other to do his dirty work for him.

    • Freedom from Chaos Says:

      VFknowMore: You have my prayers! Your story made me cry. I understand this all too well. May the Lord help each of us as we find our way back to HIM.

  66. Observer Says:

    It is very expensive to defend oneself. I am assuming that the lawyer threat is looming. In fact, it would be good to consult a lawyer and have him post.

  67. A Says:

    Hi! Someone may have already asked this, but is this article speculation, or confirmed fact? I’m not asking for the source, but I know that many have speculated about what exactly happened, and I am wondering if this article is just another speculation? I am so sad for this poor girl, whoever she is and whatever happened, and I am praying for her.

    Thank you for providing updates as you know more!

  68. Sweet-Pea Says:

    I’ve been lurking & reading this blog here & there for a few years. I wanted to offer some words. My heart aches for you who have shared your stories, for the pain you have gone thru. Its my prayer that in the midst of these revelations, these trials, that we all would all grow closer to the Lord in our lives – that we would learn to seek after HIM & not another fallen man. Our dependence would be on Him & Him alone. Please remember that no matter how much destruction others peoples sins have caused us (and even our own sins) – that the Lord can heal & restore.

    I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, the hopper, the destroyer, and the cutter, my great army, which I sent among you. You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, who has dealt wondrously with you. And my people shall never again be put to shame. Joel 2:25-26

  69. stillhealing Says:

    I read your story many years ago Jen, when Barbara Curtis linked to it on her blog. At the time I knew you were telling the truth because you can’t make that stuff up – only people who have experienced spiritual abuse really “get it”. I read your story soon after we had left a formerly healthy Southern Baptist church that was taken over by a very abusive pastor. We stayed in that environment for only about two years, but ten years later we are still recovering and struggle to make connections in church or trust others in leadership.

    We lost of all our friends and support system, and were eventually shunned when my husband publicly stood up against the pastor in a business meeting and told him in front of the church that what he was doing was wrong (he was excommunicating 40 people that day including a recent widow and a woman with severe mental illness for unclear allegations like being “divisive” or in other words disagreeing with the pastor). The pastor spread lies and slandered my husband’s character.

    A while later (don’t know how long) I started to get interested in some of the Vision Forum books and materials because we home school. I somehow didn’t make the connection between your story and Doug Phillips – I think I forgot his name. My husband and I had concerns about the Reconstructionism (and other teachings) and we definitely didn’t go “all in”. Then I came across his writing about ectopic pregnancies. Having nearly died from a tubal pregnancy, as well as going through the grief of losing our first baby, I knew then that there was something very, very wrong with this man.

    Far too many people keep silent when they experience abuse in churches and then allow the abusers to continue to destroy others in the name of avoiding “gossip”. These stories need to be told. Thank you for your courage in speaking out, and thank you to anyone else who does the same!

    • oneh20 Says:

      Dear StillHealing,

      Was your former church in southern CA, by chance? If so, could I get your email from Jen?

      Bless you.

      • stillhealing Says:

        Hi there, no we are actually in northern Canada and so was the church I mentioned in my comment above. It was formerly southern Baptist. During the meeting when all those people were excommunicated (including the founder of the church who was a member for over 40 years!) they also “voted” to leave the denomination and become independent.

    • Jen Says:

      Stillhealing, FORTY excommunications in one day?!!! And the rest of the church didn’t think there was something seriously wrong with that?

      Thank you for sharing your experience here. I am glad you are the path to healing and I hope that you will find healing here as well. You obviously understand the importance of speaking out in order to prevent the bully from abusing others. It truly is SO important.

      • stillhealing Says:

        The people left who were allowed to “vote” the others out were all under the pastor’s control. He justified it as separating the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the chaff…that sort of thing. He was “cleansing” the church to make it pure and able to move forward. The reality is that it is barely limping along and the pastor has to work part time outside of the church to keep it going. We used to have 100 people just in sunday school before the main service before he came and tore it apart.

        An elderly lady recently left after being there 10 years and we’ve been very glad to see her attending regularly at our new church!

        • oneh20 Says:

          My former church experienced something similar. I wasn’t there at that time, but there was a spilt and it was painful for a lot of people. Glad to hear about the elderly lady now attending your church!

    • idontgetit Says:

      stillhealing said:
      “We lost of all our friends and support system, and were eventually shunned when my husband publicly stood up against the pastor in a business meeting and told him in front of the church that what he was doing was wrong (he was excommunicating 40 people that day including a recent widow and a woman with severe mental illness for unclear allegations like being “divisive” or in other words disagreeing with the pastor). The pastor spread lies and slandered my husband’s character.”

      That’s par for the course when the leader is making a move to secure their power base, clean house and take out the trash. Its used in churches far more than people think and the other sheeplings look the other way or join in the fray. It is effective, I will give it that, the fact that it trashes the lives, reputation, even the financial support of a family has no meaning whatsoever. It fulfills the three “god” honoring points, it is effective, efficient and successful. Imagine these clowns with their finger on the button. That is what scares me the most they would nuke the world without a thought if they believed their “god” told them to or they just got ticked off. If the dominionists win what they want we will all be looking up from the bottom of a nuclear creator, That is a fact.

      • Morgan Farmer Says:

        I post against the fundy dominionists’ all the time on my fb page. The movements’ political members are scary. I dealt with Gary North at a PCA church I used to attend.

        Asa a matter of fact I am going to do that fb post in depth today.

        • A Shore Says:

          I would be very interested in your experience with Gary North at the PCA church. What is your FB page ?

        • Morgan Farmer Says:

          My experience with Gary North personally is not on my FB feed, I only post regarding the politicians such as Cruz, Huckabee and Santorum. However I would be more than happy to share my personal experiences just being around him. (I was not special enough to be in the inner circle 🙂 ). My FB page is Morgan Farmer, FB is: www. facebook.com/DomainDiva. You can message me. For Donna…North is married to Rushdooneys’ daughter Sharon.

        • Donna Says:

          Do.Not.Like.Gary North. He’s right up there with Rushdoony. Btw, North’s name is all over this curriculum recently written for homeschoolers. http://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/

  70. Jessica Says:

    I have been very intrigued with this whole ordeal. I even blogged about his initial resignation letter. I was never a VF supporter or anything. I did happen to buy my children some toys for Christmas one year. I do have friends that know DP personally and I never understood why they adored him so much. Anyway…….I have been reading and reading and researching and I believe you guys are being honest and accurate. I used to be in a nasty church and I firmly believe you ought to scream from the TOP OF YOUR LUNGS about this. Don’t let anyone scare you from doing so. Goooood work here, you are to be commended. This wolf and all his puppets need to be outed and shame on them!

  71. SamuraiKatz Says:

    If Doug Phillips and the VF board is possibly involved in activities that would considered criminal, then would it not be better to turn your documentation over to the proper authorities? Wait until all the investigations have been completed before saying more publicly? I think the gonzo journalism has the potential to damage criminal or civil litigation.

    • Jen Says:

      Samurai, if there are allegations that need to be turned over to the authorities, they will be. But public outcry is also a factor in making sure that crimes are investigated as well. We only report what needs to be told publicly and we keep confidential anything that would impede legal matters. Thank you.

      • Donna Says:

        And, having worked in the legal field myself, as well as having been in a church abuse situation many years ago, I think that the more testimonies you have as to the kind of stuff that’s going on in these abusive churches, the better case the prosecution has. But so many of the abused have been made to feel like it’s all THEIR fault, that THEY are/were the ones in sin, and are afraid to speak out. For that reason, I appreciate this blog and the many stories that are coming out. (Those pieces that are untrue will be weeded out, and those that are true — which I believe we’ll find are MOST if not all of them — will be properly used.)

        The biggest thing that grieves me about this whole mess is that it (the abuse by so-called Christians, and the long term agenda of DP and his peers) blasphemes the name of Christ and the Word of God. It puts a huge, ugly blight on *everyone* who claims Christ. Even though Scripture TELLS us that He will turn away some who cry “Lord, Lord” because He never knew them (false converts), and that blasphemers and apostates will be rampant within the Church in the last days, there are still those who will blame God and Christians in general for the wrong that SOME apostates (like DP) have done. :o(

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      SamuraiKatz,

      If I’m reading you correctly, what you’re suggesting is that we go silent on this blog and turn over all our evidence to the legal authorities, leaving it entirely to their discretion what happens from there. If that’s the case I can only assume you have little to no experience with the justice system. I’ll address the criminal side first, and then the civil. I could write a book on what I know of both, and my well-justified skepticism of the justice system, but I’ll keep this comparatively brief.

      Whether our public servants care to admit it or not (and many do), very little of the criminal justice system is “blind,” meaning just and impartial. This applies equally to local, state, and federal justice systems. Many criminal investigations will never move forward at all until there is prior media “buzz.” The buzz is often what motivates the investigators to give the case a high priority. Too many investigation-worthy crimes sit in file drawers for years and never move to the top of the pile due to insufficient resources, dwindling departmental budgets, short staff, and lack of motivation. Media buzz is often the only thing that gets a criminal investigation moving and completely changes the lack of motivation. The last thing any criminal investigation department wants is to appear lukewarm and apathetic to the public. Often the only thing that will light a fire under a criminal investigation department is media attention.

      The justice system at all levels (local, state, federal) now considers bloggers to be every bit as much a part of the media world as is newspaper print, television and radio. They know that some blogs bring in as many or more readers as do the more traditional media outlets, and for the sake of their own careers they can’t afford to ignore bloggers.

      The criminal justice system always begins at the investigatory level. If it doesn’t get moving at that level the case will never ultimately wind up in court for prosecution. Government criminal investigators generally delight in knowing that a case that they are responsible for is likely to be front-page news when it’s referred for prosecution. If the case already has media buzz prior to its referral to prosecution, the criminal investigator knows it will have just that much more buzz when it goes to prosecution and, thus, the odds of it receiving high investigatory priority are much higher.

      But just because a government criminal investigator believes he’s got a prosecution-worthy case is no guarantee the prosecution will take it to trial. A great many criminal cases are never prosecuted. The prosecution team must decide whether or not to prosecute based on a number of factors, including the odds of a successful prosecution, as well as the rather nebulous “motivation” factor. Prior media buzz has a direct effect on the motivation factor and improves the odds of their going to trial. Again, blogs can play a major part in all that.

      If Doug Phillips is to be criminally prosecuted, there are at least two federal agencies that are likely candidates to criminally investigate him: IRS and FBI. Neither agency is known for swift, aggressive action, i.e. lack of motivation. In many cases it takes the IRS multiple years to develop a criminal case, once a whistle-blower (what they call a “stakeholder”) fills out the necessary forms to formally report a tax crime. The same slow and plodding response is often the case with the FBI. Prior media buzz usually makes a big difference. Even after these agencies have fully prepared their cases and turned them over to the U.S. Attorney’s Office (DOJ) for prosecution, there is anything but a guarantee DOJ will move forward with a prosecution. Prior media buzz changes all that.

      As to the civil lawsuits that may be in store for Doug Phillips, I’m not at liberty to comment very much about that. If I do comment at this time it can only be in hypotheticals. If I get specific I run the risk of tipping my hand to Doug Phillips and giving him a defense advantage.

      One thing I can comment on is that Doug Phillips is a very ignorant attorney. He hasn’t practiced law in many years, and what he did practice was largely administrative law. I don’t know that he’s ever been in court defending a client either civil or criminal. If he has it’s been many years ago, so he’s quite rusty in the law. He’ll need to hire a very good attorney, and that, especially if he’s facing criminal tax fraud charges, will cost him a minimum of a hundred grand.

      In summation, I’m very familiar with both civil litigation as well as criminal prosecution processes. Everything we’re doing here dramatically increases the likelihood of both being successful for everyone concerned.

  72. Observer Says:

    Jen: There is no way one could predict that you were validated only when an affair came to light I have always maintained that nobody listens about tyrannical leadership (though it is clearly talked about in the Bible) until there is a sex or money scandal. How sad…We should all take heed.

    • Jen Says:

      Observer, while others predicted this, I did not. Personally, I was shocked that it would all come down to this. I wanted Doug to repent, but I never dreamed he would lose everything in a major scandal because he refuses to repent. It is still very sad how tightly he continues to hang on to his pride.

      • Observer Says:

        Jen: The fall of Lucifer must have been something to behold. And a start warning which few of us do.

        • Observer Says:

          Oops. typos. As an outsider, but still a homeschooler, all of this is upsetting. Anyway TW are you a lawyer?

  73. sarahejones Says:

    Wow. TW Eston, I’m swiftly losing respect for you. “In an ironically Doug Wilson style they cry ‘You’re re-victimizing the victim.'”

    Because you are. You and Jen both are. I don’t think either of you care about this girl. Why parade her around? Either you think she’s a victim or you don’t. If you do, we’re looking at a case where a person was *groomed* for abuse. Hardly a consensual relationship, regardless of her current age. You’re so eager to reveal her identity to the world–and who are you, exactly? I think it’s time we see a picture of you. At least a real name.

    If you were involved with this movement for this long, at such a high level, you were an accomplice too. And you don’t get to escape justice, either.

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      Sarahejones, in the future please click the “Reply” button so others know what comment you’re replying to. It appears you’re responding to my comment here, although it hardly seems that you’ve made much attempt to read it thoughtfully. I’ve said about all I have to say on this subject, other than this:

      1). The victim herself has no problem with what I’ve done, and is even appreciative.
      2). You are factually wrong to say I am “eager to reveal her identity to the world”. I’ve done no such thing. I can’t out someone who’s for years been such a prominent and public figure as Cassandra has been in Doug Phillips’ life. Moreover her identity is widely known elsewhere on the internet, and far more so than any minor clues you might gather here as to Cassandra’s identity. If someone were looking to identify her by name, this wouldn’t be the place to come for that. But there are others sites that do name her and who use non-pixelated non-edited photos of her. Interestingly enough Cassandra doesn’t have a problem with even those sites.
      3). I was never a BCA member, an intern, or a VF employee. Your accusation that I was “involved with this movement for this long, at such a high level” is entirely false.

      Jen tells me she would like to address this further, which she will when she’s available to comment. Until then kindly wait for her input before you comment further. She believes she may able to appease you, but clearly I fall short in that department.

    • Jen Says:

      Sarah, I am so glad you obviously care very much about what happens to Cassandra. That is very evident. I want to assure you that TW and I care about her very much as well. Before we write each article, we carefully considered what is appropriate publicly and what should stay private. There are many things we keep private, for various reasons.

      I realize that under normal circumstances, we would not reveal certain details about the “victim,” but this situation is far from normal. In fact, I cannot recall any that I would put into a similar category. So we are dealing with uncharted territory here. In the beginning, we were very careful not to give any specifics about her or the situation, but not only did several other blogs/forums readily identify her, but they also name her by name, as well as use untouched pictures of her. However, just because everyone in the know has already figured out who she is, and just because she does not mind if everyone knows who she is, we have decided to treat her with respect here and use a fake name and blur her face so that it is not recognizable. Although we used standard journalism procedures in blurring her face, many did not want even that amount, so we obliged those who took up an offense for Cassandra. Cassandra herself was not offended in the least.

      Sarah, I have to wonder if this situation touches a nerve for you personally. Perhaps you have been a victim of some sort, perhaps even sexually? If so, I am so sorry that you had to experience such a thing, but in healing from our own hurts in life (whatever they may be), we have to be very careful not to project our own hurts onto other victims. If Cassandra is not offended by anything we have said or done, why should others take up an offense for her? If Cassandra is upset with anything we have said or done, believe me, I will know IMMEDIATELY, and will take swift action to honor HER wishes.

      So, at this time, I will leave this situation in Cassandra’s hands. I hope you will let her have the freedom to handle this in her way, too.

      And I hope, Sarah, that you will stick around and find some healing here as well. Whatever has happened to you, may you find healing in our Lord. Blessings to you!

      • Buddy F Says:

        Why do you automatically assume that something (bad) happened to sarahejones, ,is it because she has some feelings for the girl you outed. your hate and yes it is hate for DP is so overwhelming that you and this Easton person are willing to drag anyone into your little black hole of hate, I have never met DP, and I thank God I never have. Why people need to think they need to be a part of a cult that denys basic rights to woman is so far beyond me that it makes my head swim. Heres how you do it,, you ask Christ into your heart, and that’s it,, eazy peazy, but you people need rule on rule upon rule.

        • Jen Says:

          Buddy, I did not automatically assume that something bad happened to Sarah, but I was merely trying to find a way to connect with her. From her words, it seemed possible that she was speaking out of her own hurt, and if so, I wanted to reach out to her that way. I don’t think she took it that way, though.

          I am sorry you think I hate Doug, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I truly do love Doug, Beall, their kids, and all our family from BCA. But I do hate to see what is happening to each of them now. It truly grieves me. However, I also hate it worse to see all the years and years of abuse and harm that Doug perpetrated on so many people, and I am VERY glad that he is being kept from continuing in that direction. I am not so naive as to believe that it will fully come to a stop now, but I know that his bullying days are greatly diminished. And for that, yes, I am very glad.

          You are correct that God desires relationship, not rules. Very correct indeed.

    • Corrine Says:

      Enough already Sarahejones . Asked & answered. Move on please!!

  74. where are the authorities?? Says:

    Has Cassandra spoke publically about this yet? If she has, has she posted her comments social media wise?

    • T.W. Eston Says:

      No, she has not, nor will she be doing so. She won’t be going public directly herself and is handling it all a different way.

      • where are the authorities?? Says:

        I hope she receives full retribution for the years of abuse in some way, shape or form.

        You know, this could all be healed (of course so much water has gone under the bridge) if DP would just truly repent and make amends to the many he has lead astray above and beyond “C”. Just get right with God, its easy. OWN the sin and make restitution and even let the law deal with you (DP) etc. It is the right thing for DP to do.

        It will be hard, ugly and more, but I cannot believe with all of his “biblical training” he wouldn’t want to do what the word says and I cannot believe he would want to make it right on earth before judgement day!

        • DesiringToDiscern Says:

          WATA, Absolutely …DP will have no peace unless he does become truly born again, bow his knee before Jesus Christ, repent and show restitution in some way.

      • idontgetit Says:

        I hope she does not as the evangelical rhetoric will eat her alive and they will enjoy it while they are singing songs to Jesus as tho their holiness. Can I offer an interpretations, Barf. Why should she even hint at her identity . The tool, yes Doug you are a tool, we know you are a tool and some of your followers also know you are a tool. For sure the employees of VF know you are a tool. Pardon Jen and delete this if needed, Doug just fess up, release those that are hurting and come clean. There is forgiveness for us heathen, trust me brother I am far more heathen then you but there is forgiveness for both of us. Imagine Doug no more pretending, no more make believe and your family can be healed. Imagine that, a family restored. I feel for you brother. I even pray for you.

        Mr. Phillips let it go, fall into his hands, ask for his forgiveness, and give healing to those that followed you. Mr. Phillips if an evolution believing old earth heathen like myself can see the power of such healing surely you can. Just let it go and seek His healing and beg his forgiveness, and He will restore that which was lost. Offered for what it is worth.

        • Keepin it real Says:

          Maybe Doug Phillips is a wolf who was scamming all along. He would then not be motivated to ask for forgiveness since he was a fake from the beginning. Food for thought. I am not saying that this is the case but we should never dismiss that possibility. Based on VF’s history, there has been rampant abuse with no signs of remorse that I can tell.

        • Jen Says:

          Keepin it real, I have heard stories from a few people who knew him before I did — a LONG time ago — and they pretty much all say the same thing: Doug has ALWAYS been this way. Sad.

        • Jackie C. Says:

          He would have to feel remorse and he has never shown any signs in the stories I’ve heard of having the capacity for empathy. He seems to glory in whatever brings him glory.

          Besides, a narcissist doesn’t need God. He is god.

        • Jen Says:

          Jackie, I agree. We are not seeing any signs of remorse yet.

        • Just a shadow Says:

          Agree. He was scamming from the begininng. He is a wolf, has been a wolf, and had the plans of a wolf.

        • Jen Says:

          Idontgetit, you call yourself a heathen, but that was beautiful! I don’t get it.


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