Women, Know Your Limits!

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30 Responses to “Women, Know Your Limits!”

  1. Donna L. Carlaw Says:

    This is funny joke. I even sent it to my daughter, who thought that it was weird. She thinks most of the things I send her are weird. 🙂

    It is feminist propaganda, is it not? I doubt that you are a feminist, though. What gives?

  2. Corrie Says:

    This little piece of humor was done by a British comedian. The reason why it is funny is because there are some people who actually think this way.

    Not everything is feminist propsganda. This wasn’t some big conspiracy piece. It was a comedic piece making fun of the absurd; the absurd that some people actually take to be truth.

    To deny that this piece is rooted in some truth is to have bought into some propaganda, alright, but not propaganda coming from those wicked feminists.

    I first highlighted this on my blog. I thought it was hysterically funny. My husband and I had a great BIG laugh about it. So did my mother and sister. You know why? Because we know people who actually think like this. My husband and I once went out to dinner with another couple where the wife made a very intelligent and insightful comment and he mocked her and told her that she shouldn’t be commenting on such things because they are way over her head and she doesn’t have the intelligence to understand such things. My husband was appalled and quickly complemented the woman and tried to recover some of her dignity and honor in the face of her husband’s mockery and condescension.

    My mother thought it was funny because my father actually said things to this affect about women and he frequently put them down in public situations (ie., dinner parties- I remember many times that he put my mother down in front of scores of others. Thank God my stepfather showed me that all men are not like this!) Do you remember Archie Bunker? Well, there are really people out there that think like him. These are not manufactured by the feminist movement.

    This piece is sad and funny. Sad because it is true and funny because it is helpful to laugh when it comes to things like this.

    I have a hard time understanding why everything boils down to a feminist conspiracy with you? Are you willing to deny even truth in order to propagate your agenda? Are you saying that these sorts of things never go on and if they are pointed out or talked about that it means that people are feminists and have bought the feminist agenda?

  3. ColtsFan Says:

    I am sorry for the pain and anguish that Jen has gone through. It must have been a difficult and painful situation. I can see that you are hurting still in your web articles. The anguish and emotional trauma that the author of this website has gone through is clearly visible to all.

    But to have an entire website devoted for the purpose of “exposing” a Christian is wrong, unbiblical, unhealthy, and very dangerous. It is also very creepy and scary. It raises serious questions about your character, about your condition as a person.

    I am not questioning your motives. I do not know you. I am only suggesting that this website has red flags pointed directly at the author of the articles.

    You are violating biblical principles here when you continually write articles revealing your pain about a certain person.

    Again, I know you are still hurting. I see that. But to have a website devoted to publishing negative articles about one person is **not at all Christian.**

    These articles of yours do not bring me closer to Christ.

    I am NO fan of Doug Phillips. I am not a follower of his theology. I have NO books or articles of his. I am only suggesting that your website turns more people AWAY from Christ than you probably imagined.

    All a person sees on your website is your pain, and your constant focus and your continual fixation on a single person, pointing all of his flaws, defects, etc.

    No-one sees Christ on your website. They only see your pain, and your constant devotion and your obsession to pointing out the flaws of another sinner.

    But for the grace of God go I….

    • Christine Erikson (Justina) Says:

      Ephes. 5:11-13 “reprove” also translated expose. “But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” could be a detective’s motto.

      This isn’t Jen’s only blog, just the one focussed on this particular person, who being a publicly active person needs addressing.

  4. ColtsFan Says:

    Let me please be clear.

    Again, I want to communicate: I am sorry that you went through such a painful and traumatic experience with Doug.

    I myself do not know that guy. I have never met him or read his books, etc. I came to your website by accident.

    I am only suggesting that your website turns people away from Christ only because your website accomplishes the following:

    ***one sees your pain and agony on the worldwide web clearly
    ***one sees that you want others to know about your pain and agony and hurtful experience
    ***but NO ONE SEES JESUS CHRIST. They only see a bitter person writing about and focusing on and devoted to continually writing about the faults, defects, failings, and sins of a human being.

    • antomaha Says:

      I wholeheartedly agree. 😦

      • Christine Erikson (Justina) Says:

        in the first chapter alone, we see reference to jesus through a church showing her things that needed correcting in her life, and her learning to be a Berean and search the Scriptures. HOW IS THAT NOT SHOWING FORTH CHRIST?

        What is your idea of seeing Jesus Christ in someone? all smiles and namby pamby and an occasional Bible quote and slathers of poetry and fleshly sentimentality? Read an entire Gospel at one sitting. Read the part where Jesus cleansed the Temple. Are you sure you even know what Christ looks like?

  5. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Well let me be the first to beg to differ here…if you had indeed really read and understood the entire context of this blog, ie: the articles as well as the comments you would have a good understanding of an internet community really works.

    People that cause harm to the church must be exposed. When sheep are abused they have to come forward. If seeing Jens pain offends you then move on. Her pain has been the pain that all of us have shared with her. We are her friends. We understand her motives….you do not.

    This blog is about exposing corrupt theology and the people that practice it…believe it or not people actually GET HURT when they are abused by cultish theological practices.

    I think maybe your name is Lucy.

  6. ColtsFan Says:

    My name is not Lucy. I am not a fan of Doug whomever.

    This was my first and last trip to this site, and before I wrote the above comments, I first checked out the articles, purpose statement, “Why We are”, etc., and other web entries first.

    You write, “people actually get HURT.” You write as if I have never been to a church before. You write as if I had never heard that ministers, lay people, or whomever are humans who (just like me) are **sinners** in need of Christ.

    You actually write, “believe it or not people actually get HURT”. Unbelievable.

    I too have had bad experiences with church people. But I, out of faith in Christ, try to have a biblical response to tragedy and suffering caused by other humans. And it is clear that Jen is still struggling with her pain because of her desire to keep everyone and the worldwide web’s attention fixated on the ugly details of a human being.

    And I tried to earlier respectfully suggest to Jen that this blog and her continual focus and continual devotion to publishing negative articles about a person takes away from proper concern for Christ.

    It is kinda creepy to have a blog devoted to publishing negative and damaging stuff about a single person.

    And my only purpose was: it distracts people away from Christ.

    How is Christ glorified in all of this?

  7. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Makes me wonder what concern for Christ the abusive theologians and their minions have?

    It is kinda creepy to be in a theologically abusive situation? Do abusive situations glorify Christ?

    Believe it or not people actually find Christ once they are informed of and are able to break away from abusive situations. Kinda creepy huh??????

  8. Alisa Says:

    ColtsFan,

    You seem to have a genuine spirit, and I can understand your first impressions. If I weren’t so painfully familiar with these types of situations, I think I may have had the same impression you did.

    However, this is the reality: Doug Phillip’s is merely a leading figure (and perpetrator) in a new man-made denomination/cult that is misleading and damaging to hundreds, if not thousands of people. Jen is merely the first to speak about the abuses she endured in a public forum. Sadly, I’m sure there will be many more in the future.

    If from what you read Jesus Christ seems absent, it is because He was so inexplicably absent in the people and situations that bring about stories like Jen’s. But I can tell you where He CAN be found, and it is in the healing that Jen and other’s are so mercifully being led through by Him, which can be evidenced in many of the discussions.

    I encourage you to read the “Are Vision Forum’s Tenets of Biblical Patriachy Biblical?” threads and some of the comments. You will discover there why this is something that cannot be ignored; too many of God’s precious children are being mistreated, and the Gospel is being twisted and misrepresented.

    We are required in Scripture to expose false teachings, to release the captives, and speak for the mute and afflicted. I assure that THAT is the intent of this web page, and so many of us are thankful to Jen for the medium to do it in.

    God Bless You… and you are soooo right. “But for the grace of God I go”.

  9. ColtsFan Says:

    Alisa writes, “You seem to have a genuine spirit, and I can understand your first impressions.”

    Alisa, I really appreciate your kind comments. I returned to this website just to make a final comment because I appreciated you showing consideration to my sole concern that Christ be glorified and magnified (even in our painful circumstances) on the sensitive topic of this website.

    As a male myself, I believe that there is much sorrow and violence and much evil in the Patriarchy dogma. I will not take the time to explore in detail what happened at a funeral that I went to in the past. There is much evil in the Patriarchy dogma.

    I do believe that complementarians like myself should be utterly and quickly repulsed and disgusted by the evil contained in the Patriarchy movement. Male chauvinism is evil precisely because it is un-biblical and un-Christlike. You cannot be a male chauvinist and at the very same time “claim to be a Christian”, similarly just like one cannot be a racist and claim to be a Christian.

    The point is: how we act on a horizontal level (relationship level) does indeed express our grasp of our true nature of our vertical relationship with God.

    But I do believe that the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (http://cbmw.org/index.php) does a good job of being faithful to Christ and **avoiding** the sin and sins of Patriarchy. Biblical scholars like Wayne Grudem and folks like him are very quick to oppose the unbiblical and evil Patriarchy movement.

    Let me conclude here by saying:

    ***As a human, I am not omniscient, and I do not know the details, facts, or hearts of any of the parties (Doug, Jen, others) involved on this delicate and painful subject of what happened.
    ***I am sorry for all of the pain that many have gone through on this sensitive topic.
    ***My chief purpose is only this: can there be some articles that talk about magnifying Christ and glorifying Christ even in the midst of our sufferings?

    Can we talk about glorying Christ in the midst of unfair, bitter treatment by others (including some who profess to know Christ?)

    I am not opposed to calling heresy “sin.”

    Can we talk about our Treasure–Christ Himself—and how our Treasure is of such a supreme value that it negates the “painful sting” of our current existential trials and struggles that all of us go through?

    Can unbelievers come to our websites and think, “yeah, I kinda see briefly the pain. But they keep on talking and talking about this Supreme Treasure—this Pearl of Great Price and Value. Who are they talking about?”

    Just an encouragement.

    But for the grace of God go I…

  10. Lucy Says:

    ColtsFan: “It is kinda creepy to have a blog devoted to publishing negative and damaging stuff about a single person. And my only purpose was: it distracts people away from Christ. How is Christ glorified in all of this?”

    Morgan: “Makes me wonder what concern for Christ the abusive theologians and their minions have? It is kinda creepy to be in a theologically abusive situation? Do abusive situations glorify Christ?”

    So, Morgan, your logic boils down to “Doug did it wrong, so I can too”

    he original question was…

    “How is Christ glorified in all of this?”

    It was NOT…

    “How many of Doug’s sins can you name?”

    Corrie, if you’re out there, this is exactly what I was talking about.

    • Surprise Says:

      Lucy, if you’re confronted by evil (and I do believe that a system that places a man on a Godlike pedestal within his family, diminishes his wife’s capacity for thought and judgement, and requires that she and her children obey him unconditionally is evil), what responsibility do you have to others? Do you remain silent, and just worship Jesus?

      What would you recommend that Jen do? Nothing? Certainly Jesus said, “Judge not, least ye be judged.” But, if that’s true, it applies to Jen as well as to those who publically criticize her…meaning YOU. If Jen should have remained silent about Doug Phillip’s treatment of her, then you should have remained silent (at least publically) of her posting about her experiences online.

      But, in addition to saying “Judge not, least ye be judged,” Jesus also very publically threw the money changers out of the temple. So, what do you do when faced with evil?

      In the case of the alter boys molested by Catholic priests, should they have remained silent because it might hurt the Catholic Church and be detrimental to the Catholic cause?

      I’m truly asking here.

  11. Jen Says:

    Coltsfan, thank you for your thoughts regarding my blog. I didn’t really see what you were trying to say yesterday, but I think today’s thoughts are a little more clear and I appreciate them.

    Perhaps the CBMW does a good job of teaching against patriarchy, but I seriously doubt if anyone who is drawn to patriarchy will go their website and check out their position. On the other hand, this particular blog attracts many who have been caught up both in patriarchy and in following men like Doug Phillips. I am reaching a whole different segment of Christians than the CBMW site does. It is possible that in the end, we will come to the same conclusions, but that would only be a good thing, I think. Personally, I never heard of CBMW while I was entrenched in Patriarchy.

    “***My chief purpose is only this: can there be some articles that talk about magnifying Christ and glorifying Christ even in the midst of our sufferings?”

    I am going to guess that you haven’t read much of my site. Maybe you’ve read my story, or part of it, but I doubt if you’ve read too many current articles or comments that I’ve written. If so, I would hope that you would see that what you are suggesting is indeed happening. This blog has also shown my own spiritual journey over the last several months. One thing I’ve learned along the way is that I am glad I was excommunicated and went through all this. This is no longer painful for me, but joyful! God had to have me go through all this in order to make some serious changes in my own life. If I had stayed at BCA, I think I would have become a Pharisee of Pharisees. I have learned that I was in extreme bondage to legalism, as well as Judaism. Patriarchy, especially hyper-patriarchy, is extra-biblical, and I am pleased that God is using this blog to expose these false teachings here.

    I pray that as I expose these false teachings that Christ will be glorified here. This is a necessary function in the church and God has seen fit to crush me in order to use me in this manner.

    BTW, Coltsfan, it might be better to leave your comments on the current thread. You are welcome there.

  12. Morgan Farmer Says:

    So, Morgan, your logic boils down to “Doug did it wrong, so I can too”

    No Lucy thats not my logic. Of course an explanation of logic I give will be immediately construed into ‘lucyness’.
    The logic is to EXPOSE the abuse of the sheep. Sorry if thats not on your agenda.

    FINIS.

  13. Lucy Says:

    No, Morgan, the point is that exposing DP shouldn’t be the ONLY thing that’s on YOUR agenda. ColtsFan asked you a question about glorifying Christ, and you talked about how Doug wasn’t. That’s avoidance. Answer the question.

    For example, when you get to heaven to give an account for your time on Earth, are you going to tell God how badly Doug behaved? Will that be your answer?

    The point here is the need for balance, and the responsibility of being sure that all our actions glorify Christ. That’s not Lucyness. That’s Biblical. It has nothing to do with me.

  14. Morgan Farmer Says:

    FINIS???????

    BTW I am wondering what you would do if you had the opportunity to warn someone about a very bad thing…lets say a friend that you knew who would be really hurt once they found out the truth. But you said nothing and did nothing. then your friend found out about this bad thing and the fact that you knew it….guaranteed…she would never speak to you again.

    Exposing Doug is not on MY agenda I did not start this blog. I do not homeschool and I have never been to an FIC church…..being here for Jennifer & Mark is on my agenda.

    I wouold rather have told God that I opened my mouth instead of standing there doing and saying nothing.

    By the way Lucy…the situation I described above happened to me. I do not speak to these ‘christian friends’ anymore. If Jen decides it is appropriate I will discuss it openly. You are going to be offended thats all I can say.

    Lucy all you do is propose a circular argument that seeks to put the responsibility of a thing on someone that does not agree with your idea of how things should be done.

    I would rather look stupid in front of God for trying to warn someone rather than standing there all smug knowing I had let my friends down.

    AND, this conversation is over as far as I am concerned. All you do is propose the same thing. why are you so upset about coltsfan…a friend of yours?

    READ MY LIPS: THIS BLOG IS ABOUT EXPOSING CORRUPT THEOLOGY. Corrupt theology does not glorify God. That was my answer to coltsfan. You did not like it….oh well. maybe YOU can answer it better than I can.

    I wonder if Jesus glorifed the Father when He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers? I wonder what HE said to God when He ascended about that?

    Stop trying to make everything a life or death situation…this blog is about exposing corrupt theology

  15. CD.Host Says:

    Lucy, I just wrote a little piece on my blog about patriarchy. In that piece I mention Irenaeus of Lyons. The core of his life’s work was a 5 volume set called Adversus haereses which explained to the Christians of his day what were and were not the authentic teachings of God. The book contains nothing but analysis and attacks on other teacher and writers.

    Within 100 years of the books publication virtually every heresy mentioned was outside the church. Tertullian and Origen used these works to create the boundaries of what was Catholic and what was merely part of the various Christ cults of the 2nd century. Adversus haereses does not contain a single prayer, a single glorifying comment towards Jesus. It barely contains a single nice comment about anyone and any nice comment is quickly followed by dozens of pages of attack.

    Virtually every line of the apostles creed is held in common by Christians today because of Adversus haereses and no other reason. So did it glorify Christ?

  16. Patty Says:

    Jen,
    Your little ‘you tube’ video above I saw referenced on another blog some time ago but it was an Islamic schloar you was commenting on it and using it to explain ‘truth’ to his followers. Disgusting. I can’t tell you how many men I have met in ALL circles ( including work,church and family) who have this mindset. How some men actually get to marry and father children and lead others is beyond me.
    Regarding your comment on CBMW… I am cautious. Deep down I think there are MANY men who espouse patriarchy who embrace that ministry. Don’t be fooled. They have along way to go before they see your viewpoint.
    Keep telling the truth.

  17. Jen Says:

    Patty, you are probably right that there is a very fine line sometimes between the CBMW position and patriarchy. Since I’m not particularly fond of labels, I hope to point people to what the Bible says — alone.

  18. momofmany Says:

    Wow. A lot of opinions here. I really found this website helpful, as it made me aware of some of the problems of family-integrated churches. Namely, lack of theology and doctrine.
    Recently a friend of mine was told by the pastors wife not to make eye contact with the men!!!
    My husband is in seminary, and has found out that to become a pastor, you need wise council, you need direction, you need mentoring, and education…above all, the Bible. Now where in the Bible does it say some of these things that Vision Forum promotes?
    They are a list of dos and don’ts, an UNBIBLICAL list, man-made, legalistic list! And I find it very offensive to take God’s word and misalign it, to focus so heavily on one verse (wives submit) that the result is adherance to that one principle and the rest of the Bible is forgotten! Sure, we have a problem with women not submitting in the church. But not in the family-integrated church. There is a problem with arrogance (having a form of godliness that doesn’t come from God) and pride–a list of standards that Jesus never gave us, putting ourselves above Christ in that way; presupposing we know something and others don’t. (Read up on the Gnostics, please. ) When pastors don’t have a clear understaning of scripture, lack of doctrine leads to legalism. Church-goer beware.

  19. Hailey Says:

    I am so glad somebody has taken the time to write down their story of what goes on in this community of people. They look so good from the outside, but there are very serious things that need to be exposed. I don’t think this website is ungodly… it’s certainly not vindictive. Instead, it is a truthful narrative of someone’s life and I hope more people are able to read what has gone so they don’t get trapped into this type of thinking that is advocated by Dough Phillips and others.

  20. Georgia Says:

    http://yoursacredcalling.com/blog/courtship-questions-for-potential-suitors/ Have you ever met Stacy McDonald? I read through her blog from time to time and find her views on the role of men and women quite disturbing. I do not think her preoccupation with biblical womanhood is of God. How do you feel about this?

  21. emma Says:

    Oh, I do love furry kittens! This is hilarious! I felt like that woman who dared to speak up whenever my in-laws were around. Anytime I dared say anything that wasn’t about “furry kittens” they looked at me like I was totally out of line. Thanks for sharing this!!! You made me smile 🙂

  22. Mary Stephens Says:

    Jen, I just saw this video tonight and it made me laugh….only it’s so horribly near the truth that it hurts my heart too. Proverbs 14:13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is heaviness.

  23. matildafox Says:

    The man Doug Phillips is bonkers. And so are the folks who enable him. Remember the story of “the emporer;s new clothes?” Research the word narcissist. As for the comment that your story puts people off Christ. HOGWASH. It means people stop putting personalities BEFORE Christ. It deepens the search. I am glad you brought the truth to light, and those who are condemning you or criticizing you for that, well ya know who they’re following right? And it isn’t Jesus.

  24. matildafox Says:

    PS,. You have to analyse and explain a joke? Really, what’s wrong with folks. LIGHTEN UP. None of us are getting out of this alive. It is a JOKE. (shaking my head and laughin at folks here.)


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