The Search For the Perfect Church

Beginning at the Beginning

When Mark and I met, we were both living quite wicked lifestyles as unbelievers. We were both soldiers in the US Army stationed in Germany and we ran off to Denmark on a “Darling Denmark” tour to get married in 1985, just four months after we met. Getting married does not change a wicked lifestyle, however, and we continued on in our wickedness. One of the ways in which I was wicked was in committing adultery against my husband, and that sin led to a child, who was given up for adoption. Still, our marriage survived, and I repented of my adultery when I became a Christian not long afterward. It was in the midst of all this wickedness, at the bottom of the barrel for both of us, that God reached down and saved us both in 1990, Mark first, and then me six months later. Although Jesus’ blood atoned for all our sins, there were still many consequences, some of which are life-long, that needed to be dealt with.

During most of the 1990s, we were stationed in Germany for the second time. Although there were a few difficulties here and there, for the most part our marriage was very sound. We were in a wonderful church there for over six years, and it was there that God taught us to be Bereans and search His Word for ourselves.

We moved to San Antonio in 1999 and searched for a similar church, but there is nothing like a military church, and only those who have been in a military church can understand the closeness of the family we had in our church in Germany. We so desired those close relationships again, but we ended up in a mega-church instead. After only a few months, not being able to tolerate the rampant sin in that church, we left and began an intense search for the “perfect” church in 2000.

I had never heard of a home church before, but for some reason, that term kept coming to my mind. I started asking around everywhere I went if anyone knew of a home church in the San Antonio area. I asked people at the grocery store, on the street, friends, everyone. We were desperate. Finally, a friend of a friend of a friend told me about a “home” church an hour away. I called, but was told simply, “No.” Crestfallen, we continued visiting various churches in the area, but – nothing.

Several weeks later, I called this lady back, practically begging to be allowed to visit. She was immediately apologetic, explaining that she had met several friends of mine in the meantime, who all vouched for me. (I later learned that another lady, whom I did not know, in a homeschool group I belonged to had attended one of these two home churches — the Wednesday church — for a while and caused lots of problems, so she was hesitant to invite others from that homeschool group.)

As she was describing the church to me, she let me know of their conservative values. “If they insist that I can’t wear colorful clothes,” I thought, “I’ll be content to wear tan and gray. If I can’t wear make-up or jewelry anymore, I’m willing to give them up, if only I could find the right church. I might even be willing to wear one of those “head coverings” if it came down to it. This church was such a well-kept secret, it must be quite remarkable!” Desperate enough to give up just about anything, we wore our most conservative clothes that Sunday, arriving at this country home way out in the Hill Country of Texas. With goats and chickens in the front yard, as well as swings, a large wooden deck, and lots of grassy areas for the children to play, it seemed an ideal location for a family friendly church.

A bit anxious, we arrived early while Beall Phillips was still painting her nails red. She greeted us warmly and asked, “Do you home educate? Do you belong to HSLDA? Have you heard my husband speak?” It was a bit unusual, I thought, but we settled down in our seats for the service. After some worshipful hymns, Doug Phillips began to preach. And preach and preach. We took an intermission after two hours and came back for more. Even though it was long, we loved every minute of it and the hour-long discussion of the men that followed.

As we had a “pot-providence” meal and fellowshipped for hours afterward, we knew this was home. The perfect church at last! Beginning this church plant with a series on “one anothering,” the fellowship was indeed sweet our first year there. I do not recall any bickering or gossip amongst the fast growing group of believers, all like-minded in so many ways.

Shortly before we found Boerne Christian Assembly, Mark and I had been praying together that God would show us all sin in our lives, as we desired to be pure before Him. God was so faithful in answering that prayer, bringing several preachers into our lives through audio tapes and radio. After every sermon we listened to, God refined another area in our lives. On a long trip, sometimes we would listen to several a day. Feeling purged, we returned to Boerne Christian Assembly only to have God use Doug Phillips and Bob Welch to reveal more areas in our lives that were not pleasing to the Lord.

By the time we started attending Boerne Christian Assembly in 2000, our marriage was the best it had ever been. But that was soon to change.

Next Chapter

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50 Responses to “The Search For the Perfect Church”

  1. Jen Says:

    When we first arrived, I would estimate there were about 20 families. Within one year, that was doubled or even more.

  2. mosaic Says:

    “This church was such a well-kept secret, it must be quite remarkable!”

    Acts 20:20 (How I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house.)

  3. always batya Says:

    Quote: “Finally, a friend of a friend of a friend told me about a “home” church an hour away. I called, but was told simply, “No.” ”

    What? You called and asked to visit there and they said no? Am I getting the impression one has to be vetted first to visit this church?

    What is that all about? How did new people find their way there…. by referral?

  4. Jen Says:

    Here’s a clue: Vision Forum Ministries runs a website called “The National Center for
    Family-Integrated Churches.”
    Click on Texas churches and look for Boerne Christian Assembly.

  5. Brandon Giromini Says:

    Jen,

    As of 6:24pm CST, Boerne Christian Assembly is not listed on the website. I have downloaded the page just in case something changes.

  6. always batya Says:

    I searched and could not find it. What is up with that?

    Also, I noticed for the first time that you were a soldier. That probably did not go over real well with them, either.

  7. Corrie Says:

    It’s not there.

  8. Come Unto Me...if you homeschool Says:

    I have heard of this nonsense before, church by “invitation only” (and this is NOT the invitation of the Gospel). This whole idea of the church being a closed community of perfect people (according to this years fad of perfection) is so against the Bible and the call of our Lord…

  9. Christian Says:

    Your site exists to expose DP’s “Ecclesiatical Tyranny”.
    How is this glorifying to Christ?
    Where in scripture do you find support for pouring your time and energy into this cause?

  10. Jen Says:

    Matt. 18:17 — “And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.”

    Actually, thank you for asking me this. I have added four new pages in the side bar which will address that very question:

    * Christians Criticizing Christians
    * Exposing Sin in the Church
    * Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged
    * The Correct Use of Matthew 18

  11. truth seeker Says:

    Christian, do you think it is glorifying to Christ to ignore deception, lying and false teaching of scripture by ministers of God’s Holy Word?

    But, I could ask you, where do you find it in scripture where we should hide the lies and deception of ministers of the Gospel?

    • Celeste Says:

      Her ministry of exposing this cult (not Christian in the least) is important because a lot of people have been abused in the name of Jesus and they need healing. If you have ever been abused you would know that in the healing process one must hear how others have recovered. If you have been abused than a blog like this will be great for you. It is also very healing for her to write about her experience and to warn others from going there.

  12. Little Geneva - Reformed Confederate Theocrats » Blog Archive » A Fistful of Ameros, Starring Shmuley Eastwood Says:

    […] Matt Chancey has bet the farm that Jennifer Epstein is responsible for the Ministry Watchman site. His research into the MW masthead photo is quite amazing, and quite wrong. But I have a theory of my own to float, and here it is in a nutshell: "Matt Chancey" is actually Jennifer Epstein. I arrived at this conclusion when I saw that the Mrs. Binoculars site has pushed Jennifer Epstein’s blog into the Top 100 of 544,199 WordPress blogs. It’s quite obvious that this is a case of shameless self-promotion. Since then, I have documented my exhaustive research in a 200-page, meticulously-footnoted thesis which will be published next month, complete with full-color graphics and pie charts. All the best people have written endorsements on the back cover, and this week the morning talk shows were notified. This is going to be big, folks! […]

  13. Lynn Says:

    Wow. This idea of yours makes perfect sense to me. Jennifer Epstein is truly amazing. In posing as Matt Chancey, she not only made her blog go through the roof in ratings, but she totally made mincemeat of the real Matt Chancey, because anybody who reads mrsbinoculars site and doesn’t think the author of that site has some serious problems can’t read.

    I think Jennifer did this because, since she is also Ministry Watchman, she knew that there was going to be an article which was not favorable to Brad Phillips on the way. And the real Matt Chancey does happen to be on Doug Phillips’ brother’s board. So it makes brilliant sense to pose as Matt Chancey on that board just prior to the release of the article on Brad Phillips.

    Wow. Jennifer, I’m stunned at your brilliance. 😉

  14. Lynn Says:

    For those who might not be quite up to speed, that last reply was a joke . . .

  15. ultimatetruth Says:

    Lynn,

    I’m getting better…I didn’t need your second post to know it was a joke. 🙂

    Mark

  16. Esther Says:

    Thanks for your bravery reporting what is going on.
    There is abuse of women growing everywhere, and the large majority is unaware.
    This all done under “Christianity” and right under the noses of a great free country.

  17. Cynthia Says:

    “Your site exists to expose **** “Ecclesiatical Tyranny”.
    How is this glorifying to Christ?
    Where in scripture do you find support for pouring your time and energy into this cause?”

    Thanks be to God that she IS doing this, and warning other people away from such things !! St. Paul wrote about false prophets:
    “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    **** 2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.****

    Peter talks about the same thing:
    2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    This is what false teachers and cults do: they lure in new Christians, and seduce them away from worshipping the Lord, to worshipping the cult leader and his view of how the world should be! These cults are usually focused on teaching people how to live their material lives in this world, rather than on Jesus’s teachings about living in the next, and they almost NEVER teach folks about loving and witnessing to sinners, helping the poor, and the other things that Jesus taught (Did you ever notice that JESUS never told His followers how to vote, how many children to have, or spoke a great deal about most other earthly things, as leaders of the manmade churches are wont to do? He taught a lot, though, about loving God and one another, about humility, and about helping the poor– see Matthew 25: 31-46)

    Rather than concentrating on Jesus, (who stressed the importance of storing up treasure in the NEXT world rather than living in this one, and who had two main rules, Love God and Love your fellowman) man-made churches usually have myriad rules telling folks how to live in this world, rules and teachings that are not in the Bible; moreover, they stress the importance of following the leader’s man-made rules more than that of following the Bible’s GOD-made rules. Paul speaks against this:
    Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Col 2:10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.

    AND
    Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
    Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
    Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    We should remember that most cult leaders are not deliberately evil men: they sincerely believe they are doing the work of God. Usually they are trying their very best to serve God, but have gotten sidetracked somewhere, often by their own egos and by a faulty understanding of Scriptures. We should pray for false teachers, love them, forgive them if they have hurt us or our loved ones, and help them to see the error of their ways and return to God. But until they do repent, we have a grave responsibility to warn our brothers and sisters away from them.

  18. Violet Says:

    Cynthia, this is an excellent letter on loving our God and each other.
    I am seeing a lot of [these men] have a few personality similarities. Have you noticed that these men have had some fame in their backgrounds? Do you think adulation is an addicted need in them? Do they tend to need a “fan club?”

    Then, again, some never had recognition and will go to extremes to get it.

    Yes, we must love them. Understanding them and exposing the real problems may be best, do you think?
    When we tear off the brand name label we find a plain container and that container is nothing much to look at.
    But…within that container may be a good product or a bad one, depending on the fears and ideas the fears have brought on.

    [These] types do not realize that a lot of people are not intimidated by them and they can see that inside [they are] crying for attention, recognition and acceptance. They substitute fame for what they need most…Godly love. They inflict the pain, they feel in their empty hearts, onto others. They have conditional love. They were loved conditionally.
    We can feel sorrow for this type person. We can love them. We don’t need to take their vices that come from their hurting hearts, though.
    I worked, as a volunteer, for a youth lock-up. I could tell the ones that were hurting the most. They were arrogant, boastful, angry, depressed. This covered almost all of them there.
    When they were confronted they got worse in their anger. The more angry and arrogant they got showed clearly to me that the wounds inside of them were opening again and they wanted those wounds to be covered away from anyone who dared to care about them or love them. Or those that could harm them more.
    Many looked at me and thought that I had an ideal life. They didn’t relate to me until I gave my background testimony and what the Lord saved me from.
    Hurting people take odd routes to cover those hurts and empty feelings. Dictatorial leaders are those who are hurting inside.
    Last night, I came face to face with a man who has been a tyrant in our lives. His harshness and dictatorial ways are still happening at age 58. He even locks up his pretty little, age 20-something, bride when he leaves his house. I know the background of this man. He has many wounds inside of him. This is his sixth marriage and each time a wife disobeyed him, he divorced her. Last night I looked at him carefully and smiled and walked on. This man, who claims to be a Christian, looked at me with surliness. He made life, for me, a living hell until I simply told him, “You can only do what the Lord allows.” That ended his threatening reign over me.
    I saw behind his facade of anger and dictatorship.
    Perfect love casts out all fear. I have yet to learn more about this perfect love. Thank God He gives us His unconditional, perfect love. Violet

  19. Mary Says:

    Where is the rest of the article? I have experience something similiar.

  20. K. Says:

    I have a couple of comments:

    1. We were in a home church where we were hurt badly – not the way you claim you were. I cannot go into great details here – but basically we were threatened by another family = we suspect because this particular wife did not care for patriarchy . . . so when we are in a home church we would like to be very careful of who comes in because of that – I do not thin WHATSOEVER that it unusual that the Phillips were being careful of who visited . . . we would want that the next time we visit a home church. We were not excommunicated as the other families were not in agreement with this family and my husband decided for preservation of our family we needed to leave.

    2. I tend to agree with Christian – I personally think this wrong to be slamming this ministry and the families in it.

    Note from Jen: At the request of this commenter, I have changed the name on this comment to “K”

  21. Robin Says:

    Looking forward to reading more here. Very intersting.

  22. Jean Says:

    Hi!

    I distinctly remember early on in this mess, that Jen posted an article containing a very revealing shadow of things to come. While Mark and Jen were still members in good standing at BCA, Jen attended one of Doug’s homeschool conference talks and spoke with Beall before Doug’s talk. Jen asked Beall why she came to Doug’s talks, that surely she had heard them many times. Beall answered something like: Well, we don’t actually do this stuff.

    This, of course, makes perfect sense in hindsight. From the getgo, Doug and Beall have been well aware that they do not practice what they preach. But the money is so good. They are just another family on the Christian gravy train. More hypocrisy.

    Jen, I have searched for that tidbit of a story, but can’t find it. Can you either link it or retell it?

    Thanks!

    Have a pleasant day,

    Jean

  23. This is gossip, (un)pure and simple Says:

    This site is unreal.
    This is the biggest gossip chain I have ever seen.
    You all should be ashamed.

    2 Timothy 3:6 says that “For of this sort are they which creep in to houses, (via computers) and lead silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, every learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

    Also:
    Proverbs 11:13 says, “A talebearer revealeth secrets; but he that is of A FAITHFUL SPIRIT CONCEALETH THE MATTER.”

    And finally:
    Proverbs 20:19 says,”He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore MEDDLE NOT WITH HIM (OR HER) that flattereth with his lips.”

    I cannot even imagine how much time is spent on this website, valuable time you could be using for something much more productive. This is not a site of a Proverbs 31 woman. You have a major bitterness problem and unless you get over it and move on, YOU will destroy you and your family. Get over it. Don’t give the devil a foothold any longer!

    “Every wise woman buildeth her house; but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.” Proverbs 14:1

    Please consider what I have said from one sister to another.
    I will pray that God will give you peace and that you will be able to forgive those who have offended you.

  24. Lynn Says:

    Also:
    Proverbs 11:13 says, “A talebearer revealeth secrets; but he that is of A FAITHFUL SPIRIT CONCEALETH THE MATTER.”

    And finally:
    Proverbs 20:19 says,”He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore MEDDLE NOT WITH HIM (OR HER) that flattereth with his lips.”

    Those would have been good words for Doug Phillips to have heeded before he read confidential information about Mark and Jen to BCA, on an issue which wasn’t a matter of church discipline at the time.

    The SFU gang and others would have benfited from it, too.

  25. Morgan Farmer Says:

    to ‘this is gossip’

    …perhaps you may want to revisit the word ‘context’ concerning ‘talebearing’….

    …It seems to me this is what is wrong with society..no one speaks out when they have been abused ror wronged. In fact…the abused ones are encouraged NOT TO SPEAK OUT….for the reasons you gave above. Then if someone does speak out..THEY are made to be bad people.
    Having come from an abusive childhood and subsequent abusive marriage I can say with certainty that when I spoke about the abuse I recieved at the hand of my mother and ex husband I was completely villified and turned away…sound familiar?

    Revisit…context.

  26. This is gossip, (un)pure and simple Says:

    Why has this needed to be hashed out for more than a year?

    The folks here are *enjoying* making “total…mincemeat” of the Phillips family (and not just him, but almost anyone else who still associates with him) by CONTINUALLY backbiting and slandering. You are not wanting just to “expose” Doug Phillips, you want to bring him down.

    You were hurt and can’t get over it.
    You need to stop this continual “feed” of criticisms, slanderings, backbitings, and plain and simple, gossip.

    You will NEVER get over it unless you stop “feasting” on this type of “food”. You really NEED to let it go.

    “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth (or your computer) but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
    Let *ALL* bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
    And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”
    Ephesians 4:29-32

    You have already “warned” folks, now move on and begin to forgive. This has gone on WAY TOO LONG.

  27. Jen Says:

    Dear Miss Gossip,

    Why are you posting these kinds of allegations on a thread that is nearly a year old? If you think I am doing the things you are accusing me of, please go to the newest thread and say those same things.

    Perhaps you may not like the way I have presented Scriptural teaching on the newest thread, so you can go to the previous article where I posted nothing but good things about Doug Phillips and those associated with them, the article where I thanked God for Doug and blessed him. Perhaps your allegations would be more fitting there.

    And while you’re on your way over there, please look up the definitions of “criticisms, slanderings, backbitings, and plain and simple, gossip.” I certainly hope that you will find NONE of those things on this site.

    Blessings to you!

  28. Cindy Kunsman Says:

    In accordance to II Peter 2:1 and Jude 3:

    Gal 2:11-14
    II Tim 4:10
    I Tim 1:18-20
    II Tim 2:15-18
    II Tim 4:14-15
    III John 9-11
    Numbers 22-25 (cited in II Peter 2:15)
    Jude 11 (Rev 2:14)
    II Sam 12:7
    II Chron 19:2 (II Chron 18 & 21)

    When patriarchy has been appropriately deemed for their false teachings and adding to the Word of God, then I think it’s an appropriate time to stop. (Speaking for myself, of course.) When Vision Forum stops trying to “evangelize” the rest of Evangelical Christianity to its “better, higher ways” of living, then it’s probably time to stop in this type of venue. When they start evangelizing the lost, I’ll be impressed.

  29. This is gossip, (un)pure and simple Says:

    “I am serious when I say that I still love Doug, and all those involved in these organizations. *I am serious when I say that I wish them well*. There is plenty here showing the other side of the story, but *just for today*, I only want to focus on blessing them. I thank God for all He has done in my life through Doug Phillips, BCA, and Vision Forum.”

    For someone that still loves Doug Phillips, I have to say that you have a very (un) funny way of showing it.

    After your ‘trashing’ of the VF catalog, the Phillips family, and the BCA, I find this whole statement extremely hypocritical.

    As a new comer to this site, I see this all very clearly.
    I think for those of you who come here for your regular gossip session, this is the “new normal” and you can’t see it.

    Jen, you asked me to look up the words: criticisms, slanderings, backbitings, and plain and simple, gossip.

    I did and this is what I found in the Meriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
    criticism: to criticize: implies finding fault especially with methods or policies or intentions
    slandering: to utter slander against; to defame: to harm the reputation of by libel or slander
    backbiting: to say *mean or spiteful things* about (as one not present)
    gossip: a person who *habitually* reveals personal or sensational facts about others;a rumor or report of an intimate nature; a *chatty talk*;
    the subject matter of gossip

    You said that after I looked these words up, you hoped that I would NOT find any of these things here on this site.
    After reading the definitions, what else can I think?

    I still say that this site is shameful.
    I still say that this is the biggest gossip chain I have ever seen.

    I know this may seem harsh, but have you considered 2 Timothy 3:6?
    It says “For of this sort are they which creep in to houses, (via computers) and lead silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, every learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
    Proverbs 20:19 says,”He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore MEDDLE NOT WITH HIM (OR HER) that flattereth with his lips.”
    I would hope that you would not want to be this way.

    Because of your wounded spirit, you have let bitterness grow. Via this website, you have encouraged others to take on your own offenses and that is wrong.

    Moreover, I cannot even imagine how much time is spent on this website, valuable time you could be using for something much more productive. This is not a site of a Proverbs 31 woman. “Every wise woman buildeth her house; but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.” Proverbs 14:1 . You have a major bitterness problem and unless you get over it and move on, YOU will destroy yourself and your family. Get over it and don’t give the devil a foothold any longer!

    Why has this needed to be hashed out for more than a year?

    The folks here are *enjoying* making “total…mincemeat” of the Phillips family (and not just him, but almost anyone else who associates with him) by CONTINUALLY backbiting and slandering. You are not wanting just to “expose” Doug Phillips, you want to bring him down.

    You were hurt and can’t get over it.
    You need to stop this continual “feed” of criticisms, slanderings, backbitings, and plain and simple, gossip.

    You will NEVER get over it unless you stop “feasting” on this type of “food”. You really NEED to let it go.

    “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth (or your computer) but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
    Let *ALL* bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
    And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, *forgiving one another*, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.”
    Ephesians 4:29-32

    I have to say that in the past, I have been very deeply hurt by fellow Christians in the body of Christ. Had I not let God help me get passed it, it would have devoured me. God *can* help you, but you need to *let* Him.

    You have already “warned” folks, now move on and begin to forgive. This has gone on WAY TOO LONG.

  30. Jen Says:

    Cindy, thank you for the list of verses. I have copied out the more relevant ones here, for those who wish to see them. They are an excellent reminder for us.

    Miss Gossip, I will answer you on the other thread.

    II Sam. 12:7, 12, 13
    Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: … ‘For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’”
    So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”

    Gal. 2:11-14
    Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
    But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

    Eph. 5:11
    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

    I Tim. 1:18-20
    This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    II Tim. 2:15-18
    Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

    II Tim. 4:10
    For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica—Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.

    II Tim. 4:14-15
    Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works. You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.

    II Peter 2:1
    But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

    III John 9-11
    I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.
    Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.

    Rev. 2:14
    But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel…

  31. Mark Epstein Says:

    This Is Gossip wrote: “The folks here are *enjoying* making “total…mincemeat” of the Phillips family (and not just him, but almost anyone else who still associates with him) by CONTINUALLY backbiting and slandering.”

    First, how do you KNOW that anyone on this site is “enjoying” exposing Doug Phillips’ tyranny? Have you asked them? From merely reading what you wrote, you appear to be making a monumental ASS-UMPTION.

    Furthermore, do you have any idea what the LEGAL DEFINITION of slander might be? Your M-W definition lacks a great deal of legality. Slander only occurs when someone FAILS to tell the TRUTH. If Phillips were actually defamed/slandered/libeled, he would have sued us ages ago. Thus, the lack of a lawsuit can be deduced as “not actionable” by Phillips and his attorney. In other words, Phillips has no legal standing because (1) we can PROVE his actions and, therefore, (2) he would be publicly exposed in a courtroom, which is public information — and he knows it.

    Since you are using an “alias,” you seem to fit the Phillips pattern of making false accusations while hiding behind anonymity. In Phillips’ case, he uses proxies to defame the Epstein family. Fortunately for Phillips, Jennifer considers him a brother in Christ. I do not and, therefore, if it was my sole decision, Phillips would have already been dragged into court for his proxies’ volumes of documental lies. Doug ought to thank God for Jennifer. 🙂

  32. This is gossip, (un)pure and simple Says:

    “From merely reading what you wrote, you appear to be making a monumental ASS-UMPTION.”

    That wasn’t very nice.

  33. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Miss Gossip: That wasn’t very nice.

    Morgan: Yeah, this site has not been ‘nice’ for a day now, seems like a certain ‘new’ poster has a way of just not being….’nice’?

    Oh and Jen…you are a better human being than I am.

  34. This is gossip, (un)pure and simple Says:

    I ask you, what did I say that wasn’t true?

    I have been reading through many of the the comments that have been made on this site, as well as the postings and I still maintain my position. You revel in gossiping about someone you detest.

    Morgan said: “Yeah, this site has not been ‘nice’ for a day now, seems like a certain ‘new’ poster has a way of just not being….’nice’?”

    You think that I have not been “nice” just because I have pointed out the unChrist-like attitudes and gossip on this site. It was fun around here for you until someone came accused YOU of sin.

    In view of the opinion that sharing my thoughts is “making a monumental ASS-UMPTION” of myself, I will leave this site and conclude that I have “cast my pearls before swine.”

  35. Mark Epstein Says:

    This is Gossip (an anonymous poster) wrote: “In view of the opinion that sharing my thoughts is ‘making a monumental ASS-UMPTION’ of myself, I will leave this site and conclude that I have “cast my pearls before swine.”

    Perhaps you would be advised to consider your accusation that anyone is engaging in gossip. This site, the articles, and the comments are FAR from gossip. They are what the writer says they are — a WARNING.

    Doug Phillips is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In my five year association with the man, I cannot recall one time he was interested in the sheep. Doug was and always has been interested in himself. That is why you see the defamation of the Epsteins (and now others) by his “independent investigators” and such.

    Unlike you, “This is Gossip,” the men and women who hold to the belief that Phillips ought to be accountable identify themselves with their real names. On the other hand you, like Phillips’ buddies, hide behind anonymity to launch yours/their attacks.

    The only “swine” are those who defame anonymously and count themselves among the righteous. Perhaps a dose or two of humility will place your feet securely on the narrow path. Otherwise, you may count yourself among the tongue-wagging tale-bearers that have yet to “man up” or place any document on line supporting their position against the Epsteins. Yes, there REALLY is a difference between my wife’s site and even Vision Forum’s (the business) outrageous lie that Jen heads up an “internet conspiracy.” Such an allegation is an unsupportable and blatant lie and your friend Phillips is totally accountable for this lie, since it is posted on the VF website.

  36. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Miz Gossip: “You think that I have not been “nice” just because I have pointed out the unChrist-like attitudes and gossip on this site. It was fun around here for you until someone came accused YOU of sin.”

    Morgan: No dear, it’s the fact that you used all the ‘buzz words’ without pointing out specifics. You were the one that showed up at someones ‘internet home’ acting like you owned the place and everyone should just sit back and welcome you with open arms. Disagreement is one thing…it’s actaully welcomed on this site…bad manners are inexcusable.

    Oh and I am at least using my real name and identity here on the site and not hiding like a fraidy cat behind some poorly defining pseudonym.

    Oink oink 😉

  37. Lin Says:

    “Morgan: No dear, it’s the fact that you used all the ‘buzz words’ without pointing out specifics”

    It is as if they have ‘talking points’ they adhere to. We see the same thing over and over. Only problem is they can ONLY accuse and rebuke. They NEVER engage in content. They do not know how.

    They have been told what to believe and given an arsenal for proof texted verses to use against people. But they could never engage in an indepth Biblical discussion about the tenants of Patriarchy. That would require individual thinking and they are not allowed. They are TOLD what to believe.

    They are so blind and they revere mere men so much that they do not see that DP is a false teacher. They follow men not Christ. It makes me want to weep.

  38. Morgan Farmer Says:

    Lin: They are so blind and they revere mere men so much that they do not see that DP is a false teacher. They follow men not Christ. It makes me want to weep.

    Morgan: Don’t waste the tears…just be there for them if they ever get it figured out…..or want to get it figured out.

  39. Sande Says:

    I am just amazed that you would humiliate yourself and be submissive to this so-called pastor! Why would you do that? He reminds me of Jim Jones. I have always been taught that none of us are sin free but that we are forgiven the moment we feel in our hearts to ask forgiveness from God – not from this idiot pastor. No where in the Bible does it say that if you are truly seeking forgiveness are you to be excomunnicated from your church. However, the Bible does say that you are not to add to or take from the Bible when teaching it. This pastor has done that and it seems to me to be all in the name of “I am in control”. The man is a dominance freak and not a pastor. A pastor, according to the Bible, is to be loving and kind to his flock. So what if you had family problems?! That should not be an excuse to have you excommunicated. It should be an excuse to provide you with pastoral counseling and guidance so your family can heal. I hope you realize God removed you from this church and not that pastor. God did not want your family exposed to that church any longer. You have a corrupt pastor and lying church members and deacons and elders. Those people, and I use the term “those people” liberally here, do not deserve you nor do you deserve them. They mistreated you terribly not because you sinned but because you were refused forgiveness and treated extremely badly which is FORBIDDEN in the Bible. I am delighted to hear another church and 4 other elders have taken you under their wing and welcomed you into their church family. How dare ANY pastor ever threaten anyone for any reason!!! After a while, perhaps a long while, you will look back on this and be thankful you were told to leave. Your children will be better off without such behavior as a Christian example. In “real” life, people make mistakes and commit sins. It is the nature of being human and not divine. Earth is our learning ground for heaven. It is the place where God observes and guides us along to make sure we will be worthy of heaven. God says we will be judged according to our behavior while we are here on earth. Can you imagine what this “so-called” pastor must face when it is his time! As your life goes on you will commit sins and then be forgiven as you feel in your heart to beg for God’s grace and forgiveness. That is NO excuse to remove you from your church. This man is not only dangerous but he is unstable. I plead you to stay away from him at all cost. It is God’s place to deal with him so please let God take care of it. Go to your new church and be with your new church family, enjoy them and pray to ask God for peace in your heart over this fruit cake’s behavior toward your family.

    • Margaret Bd Says:

      Yes, it is true that when God leads us out of a church abuse situation it is really tempting to try to fix it, or to try to resolve what is essentially His leading us out. It would be ideal or great if they would repent, but if they are truly false teachers it may not exactly come to a resolution in earth time. Praise God From Whom ALL Blessings Flow. He is great, and we are His servants, alleluia. Not anyone else.

    • Margaret Bd Says:

      Yes, it is true that when God leads us out of a church abuse situation it is really tempting to try to fix it, or to try to resolve what is essentially His leading us out. It would be ideal or great if they would repent, but if they are truly false teachers it may not exactly come to a resolution in earth time. Praise God From Whom ALL Blessings Flow. He is great, and we are His servants, alleluia. Not anyone else.–Margaret Beaird

  40. Dana Says:

    I can not imagine how much pain and or sin is present in someone’s life when they can devote so many hours to letting the truth be known, so to speak. Which really is, in this case, directed to one person and a lifestyle that you do not agree with. As the Lord leads, I will pray for you. You are a very industrious person, I pray that God will show you something that you can do to actually build up the local body, instead of cause discord among the brothers and sisters in Christ.
    I don’t know if what you are saying is true. One accusation is that you can not get contact information to their chuch off of the websight, that simply is not the case, there is a map there.
    I am sure there are terrible stories within families that you have known in your church search. But, I can assure you, my husband does not treat me or my children terrible, he loves us and would lay down his life for us. The picture of Christ and the church. I attend a conservative FIC and we are not all cookie cutter christians…we have homeschool, private, public school children within the congregation. We have women who wear head coverings and home birth with ten children, we have “small” families, a professor at the university, students, single and military members…and by the way we are rather small by America’s church standard. WE are a diverse body…with the Love of Christ and LOVE for each other that holds us together. That is what will point others to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Trust in God’s sovergn plan to reveal in his timing anything that might need to be dealt with in Doug and Bealle, your life or mine for that matter…HE (God) is good…he remains the same. I don’t know how slandering someone on a websight or blog will point another to Christ…if his word says that they will ‘know us by our love’ and the ‘love we have for one another’…this concerns me.
    Please seek the Lord….

  41. alyssa Says:

    Dear Jen,
    What is the phone number for boerne christian assembly? I’m 16 and looking to join a quiverfull church…or do you think i am better off becoming amish? i live in northeast ohio.
    I read about you in Kathryn Joyce’s book, and from her book i learned about quiverfull, but im the only quiverfull person in my area that i know of and it can get pretty lonely! 🙂

    • Jen Says:

      Dear Alyssa,

      Unfortunately, you cannot join without your father’s blessing and unless you commit to living with and serving your father until you get married. Oh, and it would be totally inappropriate for a young girl such as yourself to approach Doug about going to church. You would be out from your covering, you know, and it is certainly out of your jurisdiction. Perhaps the Amish would be more amenable to your plight. 😉

  42. alyssa Says:

    Dear Jen, i could live w/ my dad but he is abusive. would doug accept me as an exception or not?
    i just live w/ my mom and i dont see how living w/ a parent or the other affects the church that i want to join.

  43. alyssa Says:

    I guess i just humbly ask for BCA’s phone number. it u cant post it, could u email to me at alyssadaugherty24@yahoo.com? thank you!
    I have been researching this church for weeks and getting nowhere…a year later im very frustrated w/ this church. i mean how hard can it be to get a church’s phone number? that’s all.

  44. alyssa Says:

    i guess i could live w/ my dad once i am 18 but he lives in mississippi. i contacted the NCFIC website on Saturday for info. about the BCA. I’ll see what happens, though they haven’t replied yet.

  45. julie oliver Says:

    Jen, I hope you realize that your experience with Doug Phillips matters as much as a blip on the radar of civilization. Forget this guy and put your marriage back together. I don’t know how many kids you have but it sounds like you’ve spent their whole childhood fighting! Go to another church! Use a little common sense. Good grief, just because DP says something doesn’t mean it’s gospel. Read your Bible, interpret it for yourself and move on. The more you dwell on this stuff, the less you pay attention to what really matters and what you really have control over – your relationships with your family.

  46. Vision Forum Ministries President Doug Phillips Resigns Due to Infidelilty | The Wartburg Watch 2013 Says:

    […] As you might imagine, we have heard from some who have understandably keep their mouths shut about Doug Phillips due to FEAR.  Jen Epstein in the living example of why people were too scared to talk about serious problems involving Phillips.  If you are not familiar with Jen Epstein, you can begin reading her story here.  […]


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